Reaching tentacles of the Social Justice movement

[coadie]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

I will continue the answers tomorrow; see my previous post.

Karl Marx developed popular concept of "social justice,"

You can't sell communism. Even socialism is a tough label. calling it social justice makes it tastier.

Maximilian is really into the oppressor vs the oppressed. Marx named the struggle Mein kampf.

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

Karl Marx developed popular concept of "social justice,"

You can't sell communism. Even socialism is a tough label. calling it social justice makes it tastier.

Maximilian is really into the oppressor vs the oppressed. Marx named the struggle Mein kampf.

Actually Thomas Aquinus actually coined the term first. Of course under the umbrella "social justice" are so many different sub-groups. But the original spokesperson for justice and love was Jesus Christ (Mt 5-7, Mt 25).

(oh... and that's funny, Hitler BLAMED Marxists in his book, Mein Kampf)

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

That is even crazier than the doctrine of the trinity in the bible or even OT.

This social justice is big stuff for the current regime. Bill ayers, the chicago way and all the hot communists think they can offer redemption.
What is tomorrows hot socialist play? equal grades social justice scheme in college?

Coadie, are you a fan of justice? Do you cry out for justice?

One of the most powerful passages about justice comes from Isaiah of Jerusalem as a condemnation of the city of Jerusalem (1:21-27):

How the faithful city has become a prostitute! She that was full of justice, righteousness lodged in her-- but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your wine is mixed with water. Your princes are rebels and companions of thieves. Everyone loves a bribe and runs after gifts. They do not defend the orphan, and the widow's cause does not come before them. . . . I will smelt away your dross as with lye and remove all your alloy. . . . Afterward you shall be called the city of righteousness, the faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed by justice, and those in her who repent, by righteousness.

Note two things in this passage. First, that righteousness and justice are closely linked. Second, that justice is absent when corruption, bribery, failure to defend the orphan and plead the widows’ cause are the social norm.

The people could go through all the motions of external obedience and still not fulfill the demand of justice (58:2-4).

Day after day they seek me and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that practiced righteousness and did not forsake the ordinance of their God . . . "Why do we fast, but you do not see? Why humble ourselves, but you do not notice?" Look, you serve your own interest on your fast day, and oppress all your workers. . . . Such fasting as you do today will not make your voice heard on high

And then the prophet expressed in clear terms what God really expects from the people as a demonstration of their righteousness (58:6-7):

Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of injustice, to undo the thongs of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover them, and not to hide yourself from your own kin?

The prophet went on to express again Israel’s mission to the world in the metaphor of light to the nations. Here, as in other places, Israel’s own well being finally depends on how she treats other people (58:8-11):

Then your light shall break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up quickly; your vindicator shall go before you, the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer; you shall cry for help, and he will say, Here I am. If you remove the yoke from among you, the pointing of the finger, the speaking of evil, if you offer your food to the hungry and satisfy the needs of the afflicted, then your light shall rise in the darkness and your gloom be like the noonday. The LORD will guide you continually, and satisfy your needs in parched places, and make your bones strong; and you shall be like a watered garden, like a spring of water, whose waters never fail.

The prophets did not just condemn leaders for lack of justice or see it as a future dream for the people. From the earliest days of the writing prophets, they linked social justice with righteousness as God’s people. They called for both righteousness and justice to be a present reality among God’s people. Amos was perhaps the earliest of these calls to the people to be sensitive to social justice. He denounced the habit of cheating the poor, bribery, corruption, and the arrogance of the rich who took advantage of the poor and helpless in society. Like other prophets after him, he denounced the people who would perform religious rituals in a false pretense of righteousness, and then oppress the helpless. He concluded with the well know injunction (Am 5:24):

Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an everflowing stream.

(citations borrowed)

Make no mistake, justice if first and foremost the culture of the Kingdom of God, the task of the righteous in their cities. It doesn't pattern itself necessarily after a specific political party or form of government. In a democracy like today, it speaks for the weak and makes sure, taking advantage of democracy, that we support good policies and protest poor policies.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Coadie, are you a fan of justice? Do you cry out for justice?

One of the most powerful passages about justice comes from Isaiah of Jerusalem as a condemnation of the city of Jerusalem (1:21-27):

How the faithful city has become a prostitute! She that was full of justice, righteousness lodged in her-- but now murderers! Your silver has become dross, your wine is mixed with water. Your princes are rebels and companions of thieves. Everyone loves a bribe and runs after gifts. They do not defend the orphan, and the widow's cause does not come before them. . . . I will smelt away your dross as with lye and remove all your alloy. . . . Afterward you shall be called the city of righteousness, the faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed by justice, and those in her who repent, by righteousness.

Note two things in this passage. First, that righteousness and justice are closely linked. Second, that justice is absent when corruption, bribery, failure to defend the orphan and plead the widows’ cause are the social norm.

The people could go through all the motions of external obedience and still not fulfill the demand of justice (58:2-4).

Day after day they seek me and delight to know my ways, as if they were a nation that practiced righteousness and did not forsake the ordinance of their God . . . "Why do we fast, but you do not see? Why humble ourselves, but you do not notice?" Look, you serve your own interest on your fast day, and oppress all your workers. . . . Such fasting as you do today will not make your voice heard on high

And then the prophet expressed in clear terms what God really expects from the people as a demonstration of their righteousness (58:6-7):

Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of injustice, to undo the thongs of the yoke, to let the oppressed go free, and to break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover them, and not to hide yourself from your own kin?

The prophet went on to express again Israel’s mission to the world in the metaphor of light to the nations. Here, as in other places, Israel’s own well being finally depends on how she treats other people (58:8-11):

Then your light shall break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up quickly; your vindicator shall go before you, the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer; you shall cry for help, and he will say, Here I am. If you remove the yoke from among you, the pointing of the finger, the speaking of evil, if you offer your food to the hungry and satisfy the needs of the afflicted, then your light shall rise in the darkness and your gloom be like the noonday. The LORD will guide you continually, and satisfy your needs in parched places, and make your bones strong; and you shall be like a watered garden, like a spring of water, whose waters never fail.

The prophets did not just condemn leaders for lack of justice or see it as a future dream for the people. From the earliest days of the writing prophets, they linked social justice with righteousness as God’s people. They called for both righteousness and justice to be a present reality among God’s people. Amos was perhaps the earliest of these calls to the people to be sensitive to social justice. He denounced the habit of cheating the poor, bribery, corruption, and the arrogance of the rich who took advantage of the poor and helpless in society. Like other prophets after him, he denounced the people who would perform religious rituals in a false pretense of righteousness, and then oppress the helpless. He concluded with the well know injunction (Am 5:24):

Let justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an everflowing stream.

(citations borrowed)

Make no mistake, justice if first and foremost the culture of the Kingdom of God, the task of the righteous in their cities. It doesn't pattern itself necessarily after a specific political party or form of government. In a democracy like today, it speaks for the weak and makes sure, taking advantage of democracy, that we support good policies and protest poor policies.

The scriptures don't refer to Social justice. Criminal justice is not social justice.

3Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.

4Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked

You need to have some home bible studies. ask your pastor.

None of the bible mentions social justice.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Actually Thomas Aquinus actually coined the term first. Of course under the umbrella "social justice" are so many different sub-groups. But the original spokesperson for justice and love was Jesus Christ (Mt 5-7, Mt 25).

(oh... and that's funny, Hitler BLAMED Marxists in his book, Mein Kampf)

Your catholic teachings may also indicate ST Thomas Aquinus didn't speak english.

He didn't mention social justice.

History of the Four Pillars
The practice of describing Green philosophy via Four Pillars began with the German Green Party in 1979-1980. At its founding meeting in 1984, the Green Committees of Correspondence in the United States expanded these into the Ten Key Values.[1]

For the Australian Greens, they are known as "Ecological sustainability", "Social and economic justice", "Peace and nonviolence", and "Grassroots democracy".

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Did you even graduate High School, coadie?

.

I have not heard that expression in years. High school drop outs say graduate high school. Graduates say graduate from high school.

Your insultative behavior is which is straight out of the writings of left-wing crank Saul Alinsky: demonize polarize and destroy. Pushing social justice, socialist agenda.

Your motives are easy to read. It is your game to act superior.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

It would work for everyone.

As long as that law is not state-sponsored.

Now we face social justice agenda and it pushes gay marriage. Of course the oppressors must be over ruled in court.
They demand their rights.
Oppressors deny rights they say.

[kindofbelieve]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Who makes sure these 20 villagers this idea would work for are keeping the law? Who makes sure the laws that are passed are done right?

It would vary from group to group (though I like the way you immediately decided that it would work for the 20 villagers and left the bigger number out altogether as well as the usage of the word village - which has a less modern conotation since we call such things communities these days). Each group of people would decide how their structure would work. Anarchy doesn't dictate that there will be no structure or leadership, it merely strips the power from the state (not as in Texas - but a government) and gives it to the individuals to do with what they wish.

People are different, they are individuals, and there are some 300 million in the geographical area of the US -- why does there have to be a one-size-fits-all solution?

Originally Posted by Maximilian

When does the 20 villagers who become a "state" or when does it become "state-sponsored?"

Why do they have to become a state? Again, that's working from the assumption that the state is the only answer. There is another answer, or even multiple answers, if people are willing to actually give it serious study.

Quick reference to Romans 13: When a person begans a voluntary interaction with a group of people, then the leaders of that entity would still be ordained by God (there is the question as to what exactly ordained means as well - but that is non-issue in this statement). It isn't as though God sees the US government as the only one in place, nor will it be the last one ever -- Paul was speaking of leaders, which in his time would have been called rulers, in general who would be "the minister of God to thee for good"; they would not be "a terror to good works, but to the evil"; this does not mean that the leaders would be of the state.

In the end, I don't mind if someone wishes to have XYZ government program. In fact, I'm all for an individuals choice for that. To the point that if they wish to have a service they can write a check and send it. That is an individual wishing to have something and acting upon that desire to produce it.

Am I not allowed the same courtesy? In other words, if I don't wish to have XYZ government program, then shouldn't I have the same process available to me? To show my disapproval by NOT writing a check to the program? Probably not -- why? Simply because the individual has no place over the majority...

You see, I don't mind paying for various options in life - I merely want to have those things provided by people that I can pay or not pay depending on their ability to perform the duty. If they do a good job, I pay them what is due them - if they do not, I fire them. Not through bureaucracy, but through an actual "Your fired" that takes place in minutes; and hire their replacement. I want to have the choice to have the things I want and forego the things I don't.

For the record, and in keeping with the thread -- I have no issues what-so-ever with individual powered social justice.

I'll be offline for several days due to work and moving (I absolutely abhor moving). If you'd like to see a simple basis of where I am philosophically here is a YouTube that is just over 8 minutes that is a skeleton of it. If not, I have no issues with that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

Your catholic teachings may also indicate ST Thomas Aquinus didn't speak english.

He didn't mention social justice.

History of the Four Pillars
The practice of describing Green philosophy via Four Pillars began with the German Green Party in 1979-1980. At its founding meeting in 1984, the Green Committees of Correspondence in the United States expanded these into the Ten Key Values.[1]

For the Australian Greens, they are known as "Ecological sustainability", "Social and economic justice", "Peace and nonviolence", and "Grassroots democracy".

So the fact that he said the words or the idea in latin means he didn't actually mention social justice????

[coadie]

Originally Posted by kindofbelieve

I will continue the answers tomorrow; see my previous post.

Social justice update


Gay activists ask St. Louis Cardinals for Kiss Cam on them
The Associated Press
More News
The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that at least 200 gays and lesbians will be at Busch Stadium on Saturday as part of an "Out at the Ballpark" promotion organized by the nonprofit group St. Louis Pride.

The request to the Cardinals was spurred by a Kiss Cam incident at Sunday's St. Louis Rams game. The camera zeroed in on two men dressed in jerseys of the opposing team, the Arizona Cardinals. The crowd laughed, then booed when the men tried to shoo away the camera.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/09/16...#ixzz0zo2emus2

Lesbians kiss at Butch stadium?