For those that left the UPC...

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Sounds good to me! Tiptoeing takes a lot of time.

If we are going to speak of personal experiences, after I repented, I was baptized "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost" and felt wonderfully cleansed. I was told after I started attending a UPC that I needed to be baptized again because it wasn't done right. I felt no conviction, I just did it because my pastor told me to. My husband hadn't been baptized and wanted to be, so my pastor said we'd just baptize me too at the same time. When I was baptized, I felt nothing. My pastor said that was fine and normal but we must believe the Bible over our personal experiences and, with his biblical "expertise" vs my lack of knowledge, convinced me that baptism with the preacher saying the name of Jesus over you was the only way or you were hell bound. This confused me terribly, because if my wonderful experiences with God were misleading me to hell, I couldn't trust my own perceptions. This led me down an incredibly dark path. From the outset, I trusted what I was told more than what I felt, largely because of this. In time after many, many years, I learned that what I think matters and what I feel matters and that God cared about me and would not mislead me.

Right! Sounds good to me too! LOL!

Well, to take that further, I was baptized in the father, son and Holy Ghost by Charles Duke, the astronaut - felt nothing. I was baptized in the UPC in the Name of Jesus - felt nothing. Received the Holy Ghost and felt the power of God Almighty. LOL!

Now, from that, I would only have to say - putting my feelings aside, what does the Bible teach about Matthew 28:19 and the name of Jesus. That, IMO, is the most important thing.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Right! Sounds good to me too! LOL!

Well, to take that further, I was baptized in the father, son and Holy Ghost by Charles Duke, the astronaut - felt nothing. I was baptized in the UPC in the Name of Jesus - felt nothing. Received the Holy Ghost and felt the power of God Almighty. LOL!

Now, from that, I would only have to say - putting my feelings aside, what does the Bible teach about Matthew 28:19 and the name of Jesus. That, IMO, is the most important thing.

Right...for people making decisions on that, it is important to them and what I believe is that it is faith and not preachers saying Jesus over a person that makes the difference. You could probably be baptized by an atheist if you couldn't find a believer, and it wouldn't matter. What matters is what the person believes.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

...
Now, from that, I would only have to say - putting my feelings aside, what does the Bible teach about Matthew 28:19 and the name of Jesus. That, IMO, is the most important thing.

What does the Bible teach about Matthew 28:19 and the name of Jesus?

Well, there are differences of opinions among Christians on this. Some of us think we are to baptize just like He said so we say, "...in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost...." Some of us think He was making a little play on words and giving a wink to His knowing disciples so we say, "...in the name of Jesus...."

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

Right...for people making decisions on that, it is important to them and what I believe is that it is faith and not preachers saying Jesus over a person that makes the difference. You could probably be baptized by an atheist if you couldn't find a believer, and it wouldn't matter. What matters is what the person believes.

Well, I can't agree with the atheist thing. Don't know why that person would care about baptism. LOL!

Going all the way back to Genesis when the first prophetic word concerning the Messiah went forth, I believe truth and understanding mattered a great deal to God.

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." (Genesis 3:15)

So, I think we should be careful to understand what Jesus is saying in Matthew 28:19. When the scripture says, baptize in the "name of", He is speaking singularly.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sam

What does the Bible teach about Matthew 28:19 and the name of Jesus?

Well, there are differences of opinions among Christians on this. Some of us think we are to baptize just like He said so we say, "...in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost...." Some of us think He was making a little play on words and giving a wink to His knowing disciples so we say, "...in the name of Jesus...."

Oh, was that supposed to be cute? No? I didn't think so. LOL!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Oh, was that supposed to be cute? No? I didn't think so. LOL!

I thought it was.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Sam

I thought it was.

Yes, I see that you probably would.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by ILG

Jesus Himself said in the book of Matthew to be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. I wonder if Jesus was messed up about His theology when He said that. I mean, the NAME is supposed to be Jesus, right? So, if a pastor baptizes saying I baptize you in the NAME of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, after someone believes in that name, I would suppose he was baptizing in that name, right?

But, if someone wants to create an exclusive doctrine, they ignore that baptizing in the name is baptizing in the name, while saying that the name is Jesus and that name must be uttered for efficacy. I guess Jesus said those words to confuse people, so He could laugh when they got it wrong, according to some.

ILG,
I appreciate your post. Your "wink, wink" irony is well-taken.
I think the one thing that convinced me more than anything to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is my belief that the book of Acts is historical and doctrinal in nature, providing the only documented narrative for the actions of the New Testament church.
I completely understand your comments about how you felt after your first baptism. Just a question; Do our feelings justify our walk with God? I'm only asking because I take your comment to mean that you discredit your Jesus' name baptism because of your feelings. If your are honest you will admit that there was no "wink, wink" by Jesus Christ. The apostles taught the teaching of washings (baptisms) for repentance. It wasn't until the NT that we see it more fully explained by Paul as a symbolic burial with Christ.
Is it possible that there are more issues with your pastor than baptism? Maybe the way you received that doctrine was in the sense of conviction or demand...either case can be mishandled. It still doesn't change what is written.
"wink, wink"!

I'm just sayin'.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Shingledecker

ILG,
I appreciate your post. Your "wink, wink" irony is well-taken.
I think the one thing that convinced me more than anything to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is my belief that the book of Acts is historical and doctrinal in nature, providing the only documented narrative for the actions of the New Testament church.
I completely understand your comments about how you felt after your first baptism. Just a question; Do our feelings justify our walk with God? I'm only asking because I take your comment to mean that you discredit your Jesus' name baptism because of your feelings. If your are honest you will admit that there was no "wink, wink" by Jesus Christ. The apostles taught the teaching of washings (baptisms) for repentance. It wasn't until the NT that we see it more fully explained by Paul as a symbolic burial with Christ.
Is it possible that there are more issues with your pastor than baptism? Maybe the way you received that doctrine was in the sense of conviction or demand...either case can be mishandled. It still doesn't change what is written.
"wink, wink"!

I'm just sayin'.

Oh, I have a long sordid, pathetic history with the Apostolic church. This is just the tip of the iceburg. "wink, wink".

Seriously though, I think if people want to be baptized in Jesus name, that's fine with me. And if they want to be baptized in the FS&HG, that's fine with me too. If we are going to talk scripture, I think baptism in Jesus name may be more correct. However, I don't see anywhere in scripture where the leap of logic is made that says if you don't get baptized with a preacher saying "Jesus" over you as you go under, you are going to hell. And that's the leap of logic made by many Oneness Pentecostals.

[Sam]

In my opinion, although nobody asked me for it, the condition of the person's heart being baptized is far more important than the amount of water used or the words spoken at the ritual.