A new twist on "Phariseeism?"

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by coadie

God still refers to shepherds as authorities.15And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Zacharia 11
We still follow authority. You may check the bible. We are in a different dispensation. They cover it in a good home bible study.

Coadie what are you quoting? Can you cite the verse.

You are suggesting that this OT pericope is a perfect cut and paste into the NT church? Are you certain of that?

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Justin

He was supporting their authority, as long as they taught the law which was delivered to Moses.

He didn't support them adding to, or taking away...

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Where do you see that qualification?

[I]"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do,

Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do (regarding the teachings handed down by Moses)

[Maximilian]

Originally Posted by Justin

Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do (regarding the teachings handed down by Moses)

Justin, I agree that's the best way to read that. However, it's not explicit or clear.

I like what follows:

Instead of giving you God's Law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under these loads, and wouldn't think of lifting a finger to help. Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called 'Doctor' and 'Reverend.'

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Justin

Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do (regarding the teachings handed down by Moses)

But they leave out the rest that says to not follow their behavior.

But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. ERV

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by coadie

God still refers to shepherds as authorities.15And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Zacharia 11
We still follow authority. You may check the bible. We are in a different dispensation. They cover it in a good home bible study.

God raised authorities or shepherds to lead the people.

That doesn't mean every person claiming to be a Pastor really is one.

It also implies in this case God is calling persons who do His will. It does not address shepherds that do not His will but abuse that authority

[Praxeas]

In other words,even if these so called leaders are hypocrites, don't be like them. You continue to obey the will of God despite their hypocrisy

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

From the preacher who signs his name after everything he says on FB, so to remind that his quotes are trademarked :

* The "Old Pharisee" claimed to obey the letter of the law while finding loopholes to disobey the spirit of it.
* The "New Pharisee" claims to obey the spirit of the law while finding loopholes to disobey every letter of it.
(Rob McKee)

Do you agree? Disagree? Is he missing the whole concept of who Pharisees were? Is there really an "old" and "new" Pharisee? What say you?

Pharisees are another example of covert rebellion.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

God raised authorities or shepherds to lead the people.

That doesn't mean every person claiming to be a Pastor really is one.

It also implies in this case God is calling persons who do His will. It does not address shepherds that do not His will but abuse that authority

Many shepherds are foolish. Neglectfull can be part of that.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Maximilian

Justin, I agree that's the best way to read that. However, it's not explicit or clear.

I like what follows:

Instead of giving you God's Law as food and drink by which you can banquet on God, they package it in bundles of rules, loading you down like pack animals. They seem to take pleasure in watching you stagger under these loads, and wouldn't think of lifting a finger to help. Their lives are perpetual fashion shows, embroidered prayer shawls one day and flowery prayers the next. They love to sit at the head table at church dinners, basking in the most prominent positions, preening in the radiance of public flattery, receiving honorary degrees, and getting called 'Doctor' and 'Reverend.'

Originally Posted by coadie

But they leave out the rest that says to not follow their behavior.

But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. ERV

I agree that it's a bit drastic to call Pastors who impose "additional teachings" to precaution their congregation "pharisees". Pharisees would enforce rules, whether Mosaic, or not, and some times not follow the same teachings. Thus Jesus' firm rebuke against hypocrites.

I don't personally know any Pastors that don't "practice what they preach". From my experience, if they teach it, they also obey it, whether Biblical, or not.

We are to obey our spiritual leaders as long (and possibly, if only) they obey the word of God.

Where do we draw the line? Pastor A. teaches teaches biblical truth (salvation), and also teaches us to have "Apostolic Pray Rugs".

Wait a minute! Do I have to obey this? It's not biblical.

Pastor B. also teaches biblical salvation truths, but also teaches woman wearing wooden shoes and "clogging" as part of their worship.

Am I bound by Heb 13:17 to obey them "no matter what?"

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Justin

I agree that it's a bit drastic to call Pastors who impose "additional teachings" to precaution their congregation "pharisees". Pharisees would enforce rules, whether Mosaic, or not, and some times not follow the same teachings. Thus Jesus' firm rebuke against hypocrites.

I don't personally know any Pastors that don't "practice what they preach". From my experience, if they teach it, they also obey it, whether Biblical, or not.

We are to obey our spiritual leaders as long (and possibly, if only) they obey the word of God.

Extrabiblical teachings and rules? Yeah I'd call them pharisees.

But even those kinds of Pastors look for loopholes, For example they don't own a TV but they watch TV over the internet.

The whole "precaution" is really just an excuse to enforce rules that have no biblical foundation. Like facial hair...we heard it was due to the hippy movement...well that is false but even so where is the precaution? Does that mean if a man grows a beard the hippy spirit is gonna jump on him, make him smoke weed and drive a van?