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Originally Posted by Jason Badejo
1)As StaySharp pointed out, the bible clearly says Abraham was justified before circumcision.
2) In specific answer to your question, I would say if Abraham would have REFUSED circumcision it would have been proof that He didn't really have saving faith, so in a way, you could say that Abraham wouldn't have been justified if he had not obeyed.
But the fact that he DID obey is evidence that He had long before had a genuine repentant saving faith, which in time to come manifested itself in total submission and obedience to God.
I think the same thing applies today. I believe the sinner is justiifed by faith at repentance, but I as a human cannot know for sure if that repentance and faith is genuine. That faith should be followed by water baptism. Not as a saving work, but as evidence of true faith. If someone says they have faith but they refuse to be baptized, I believe it is legitimate to question whether or not they have faith. And if they would claim to have faith, it would certainly seem to be the type of faith James is condemning, namely dead faith.
Were justified by faith, and the faith which justifies always manifest itself in obedience to Jesus Christ.
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2) In specific answer to your question, I would say if Abraham would have REFUSED circumcision it would have been proof that He didn't really have saving faith, so in a way, you could say that Abraham wouldn't have been justified if he had not obeyed.
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This is true. Abraham would not have been justified if he had not obeyed. Other examples of those having faith also show that action, on their part, accompanied their faith. Faith alone does not save us.
Hebrews 11:
Abel offered a more excellent sacrifice.
Enoch was translated because he
had a testimony that he pleased God.
He is a rewarder of them
that diligently seek Him.
Noah prepared an ark.
Abraham, not knowing where he was going,
obeyed and went out to the place he would receive as an inheritance.
Sarah conceived a child by faith. (action taken on her part
)
Abraham offered up his only son.
Issac blessed Jacob and Esau.
Jacob blessed Joseph's sons.
Moses hid by his parents.
Moses refused to be called the son of Pharoah.
Moses forsook Egypt.
Moses kept the passover.
Moses passed through the Red Sea.
Israel compassed the walls of Jericho.
Rahab received the spies with peace.
Through faith action was taken - subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouth of lions, etc...
Faith is a requirement that also demands obedience -
Mark 16:16;
Acts 6:7;
Romans 10:16
Abraham is a beautiful example of what the Hebrews would later come to find out - "For the law made nothing perfect." (
Heb. 7:19) and that having a shadow of things to come could never, with those sacrifices, make the comers perfect." (
Heb. 10:1) Abraham preaches faith being the substance of things hope for, the evidence of things not seen. His "obedient" faith is what brought the justification. In other words, his faith caused him to be obedient. And this faith would, eventually, also include the Gentiles outside the Law.
My only other thought would be that "repentance" is an acknowledgment for our error and sin. It is a compunction of guilt and a reversal from sin in our lives.
It is much like in
II Cor 7:10, Paul speaks to the Corinthian church, "For godly sorrow works repentance
to salvation..." He is saying that their acknowledgment of sin was good in that it points them into the direction of being saved.
Having said that, I see in
Romans 6:4, that we are buried with Jesus Christ by baptism into death and that like Christ, we will also be raised to walk into
"newness of life".
Now, my question - If we are already saved by "repentance", why does
Romans 6:4 say that baptism causes us to be raised to walk in
"newness of life"?
That should have happened at repentance, according to your view, if we are being saved at repentance.
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