Don't Ask....Don't Tell. Good Policy? - Page 35

deadeye · #**341** 10-20-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

The Magic Wand strategy has never worked.

Never???

I have seen plenty that were delivered from the depths of sin because they were Born Again of Water and Spirit,...

Does every one that is baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost change?....no...but many do.

Its called becoming a New Creature in Christ.

Jeffrey · #**342** 10-20-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azzan

Comparing a gay male and a straight male working closely together with a straight male and a straight woman working together is comparing apples to oranges.

A gay is not going to approach, or flirt, with a straight.

But the attraction is not depending on it being reciprocated. A gay man is attracted to men (gay or straight). I'd imaging they wouldn't "come on" to straight men, but other men knowing they are essentially the same as a woman in the room with a man, may take that differently.

I am attracted to women. Even if it's one I don't have a chance (edited by admin) with.

deadeye · #**343** 10-20-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye

Never???

I have seen plenty that were delivered from the depths of sin because they were Born Again of Water and Spirit,...

Does every one that is baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost change?....no...but many do.

Its called becoming a New Creature in Christ.

having said that...it also takes a fair amount of self determination on the persons part for God to be able to make a change.

Jeffrey · #**344** 10-20-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Wow. Thanks for sharing your heart.

I felt silly asking about the shower, but that seems to be the main objection early on in this thread. I think there are those that view gays as animals who jump everything that passes by and I think that stereotype is ridiculous. I'm sure you're familiar with the, "Be careful around him, he's gay" attitude.

For example, a friend of ours who occasionally comes to visit, is gay. He's been a friend for decades. But when certain people found out he was staying in our home, the phone rang with warnings for us to be careful about letting our boys around him. I was shocked by it all...I'm a bit naive, I suppose.

I don't say that to drudge up bad memories, but to call attention to the preconceived ideals many have about certain groups of people.

When you said, "You are very good at knowing who is family and who is not", do you mean your....slang term...."Gaydar"? I've been told by gay people they can "spot their own". I've been assured over and over not to worry about being "hit on", so I think a lot of guys that worry about another man jumping them are victims of a stereotype that has been passed around.

I have never talked to a gay person who says they would choose what they are. I'm sure there are those who would, but I haven't met them yet. The bias can be ugly. Who would want that?

You don't need to convince me that you were born that way. I agree with you. And yes, there are many that have suffered sexual abuse as a child which can lead to a mental illness, but certainly, to issue a blanket statement that all gays are mentally ill would not be an accurate statement, true?

Let me ask you this....you say it's not possible to change. What about those who would suggest that it is possible to overcome while not totally changing? I'm speaking of those who would suggest that, just as a heterosexual married man may have temptations to sleep with another woman, he does not, and instead, continues to be with his wife. Do you feel that has any legitimacy?

I still think the "shower issues" and others like that are perfectly reasonable arguments.

Jeffrey · #**345** 10-20-2010, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

The Magic Wand strategy has never worked.

The "magic wand" hasn't, but Grace, Redemption and Sanctification has. Remember, grace doesn't just help us have better actions, it's a new heart and teaches us how to live in ways that are healthy and pleasing to God.

While some have never overcome their "thorn in the flesh" so-to-speak, either committing to a life of celibacy or some just continually struggling, others have found life fulfilling outside of what they call the "chains" of homosexuality. I worship with one such man, who was a cross-dressing prostitute.

notofworks · #**346** 10-20-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadeye

Never???

I have seen plenty that were delivered from the depths of sin because they were Born Again of Water and Spirit,...

Does every one that is baptized in Jesus Name and filled with the Holy Ghost change?....no...but many do.

Its called becoming a New Creature in Christ.

So then, what about those who don't change.....at all, and continue to struggle for years with a particular sin or a variety of them? They didn't become a new creature?

And no, the magic wand doesn't work. I don't believe speaking in tongues changes everything. Well, I personally don't think it does much of anything, but our faith in Christ, which gives us the Holy Spirit (which I know you don't agree with us) gives us power to go beyond our natural selves but it doesn't do the work for us.

Sam · #**347** 10-20-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

...
Let me ask you this....you say it's not possible to change. What about those who would suggest that it is possible to overcome while not totally changing? I'm speaking of those who would suggest that, just as a heterosexual married man may have temptations to sleep with another woman, he does not, and instead, continues to be with his wife. Do you feel that has any legitimacy?

I would also like to ask about organizations like
Exodus International http://www.exodusinternational.org/
and Prodigal Ministries http://www.prodigal-ministries.com/
Are you familiar with them?
do you know people in them?
and, if so, do you think they are effective in what they do?

It is my understanding that these are non-denominational Christian ministries and not Oneness Pentecostal groups and therefore might be condemned by some Oneness Pentecostals.

Please don't give any information that you are uncomfortable with or that might reveal people's names or other information.

Jerry Armelli spoke at the Vineyard Church where I attended from 1992 to 2006. He and some folks from Prodigal Ministries also participated in a session of our Monday Night Growth and Healing.

Aquila · #**348** 10-20-2010, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Since I am wrestling with both positions, how does your reasonable position here respond to the idea of how same-sex attractions (openly) affect the atmosphere in cases we normally take for granted: foxholes, barracks, bunks, showers, etc. Is this wise to make a policy change at a time of war?

We have men and women serving together and in combat. I think it's strange how people assume there is crazy sex going on in foxholes. I served with a gay man. He could kill anything that moved. I'd have been honored to fight along side of him.

Aquila · #**349** 10-20-2010, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

How does the man's sexuality affect the day-to-day operations and environment? Would it be similar to having men and women serving in these close and intimate quarters? The difference being the level of nonacceptance for any homosexual advances. And if male/female counterparts can flirt, what happens with unwanted male/male flirting?

First, none of that belongs in a professional environment, gay or straight. Second, to some degree, people have to be adults.

Aquila · #**350** 10-20-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azzan

Yes, I was baptized and filled with the HG for many years. It did not help. Even when I was active in church and was used in the gifts of the spirit (tongues, interpretation of tongues and even prophecy), the attraction to my gender never, ever left me. It was always there.

I have been living alone for the past 6 years. It is a lonely existence and not what I desire for the rest of my life. I have come to accept that I am who I am and this is what God has for me. If I do find a partner some day I will not hesitate to embrace that opporuntity. I know some of you will be horrified to hear that, so be it.

I don't want to hijack the thread and make this all about me...

Hey, don't feel bad. I was baptized and filled with the HG and I'm still attracted to very beautiful women. I never chose to be straight. I've fought my attractions, but they don't seem to abate. I find myself catching a peak every so often and pray God forgives me. Sometimes a lovely young lady talks to me and I can't help but have a few thoughts fly through my mind that I repent of. More often, I'll see women walking around the airport where I work and catch myself "checking them out". Then I feel guilty and pray God forgives me. I don't chase women down and try to seduce them. But... I can't ditch my opposite gender attraction.

You pray for me... I'll pray for you.