Don't Ask....Don't Tell. Good Policy?

[Azzan]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I'm coming in late on this conversation, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating what someone else may have already said.

First, I have gay friends and over the years I have tried my best to understand their take on the gay agenda. I'm 50 years old, and at this age many of us become more sympathetic or merciful to those whom we considered wrong in the past. Our own mistakes bring about humility in regards to situations like this and I have honestly tried to understand the homosexual lifestyle.

My problem with the gay lifestyle is simple (at least I think it is simple). Azzan, you consider your lifestyle or choice natural. You feel you were born this way, and that confirms your feeling about being gay.

A natural choice should confirm a natural response or reaction. For instance, the Sun is the Sun because it is warm, provides light, and helps our planet to grow food to sustain life. The Sun would not be the Sun if it didn't provide us these benefits, at least on Planet Earth where humans exist. We expect the Sun to perform and do its duty from a natural standpoint.

If the Sun leaves these natural boundaries, we die. When people leave natural boundaries, we die.

Without becoming too graphic here, when the gay agenda is revealed in honesty, the male organ does not belong where gay men put "It". Many gay men require diapers, surgery, and have a great deal of infection in their urinary tract from using the anis for sexual pleasure. Also, sperm is meant for the vagina of a woman where life is produced. Once people leave the natural sexual function of a man and a woman, problems are not only obvious, they are unnatural and unscientific.

If a gay person decided to live with the same gender without having sex, I could see that as being a productive lifestyle for some. But once sex is brought into the picture, I'm sorry, but I don't see that as being of a natural affection.

Thank you. Would you be surprised to know that I don't think homosexuality is the preferred condition?

The first sentence of your last paragraph is quite interesting. I wonder how others here feel about your statement?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Azzan

Okay, I'll bite. I have been lurking on this forum for over a year, listening to the discussions on here. Of particular interest to me have been the discussions about gays.

You see, I am one. I am not here to push an agenda and I am not going to be drawn into debate. I am simply responding to NOW's request to hear from a person who is gay.

A little about me. I was raised in the UPC. My family is still in the UPC. In fact, I have children being raised in the UPC and my father holds a license with the UPC.

There has been a lot discussion on here about whether being gay is a choice. Believe me, I wish it were! It is not a choice for me and never has been. I cannot tell you how many hours were spent in prayer and days spent in fasting asking, nay pleading, that this condition be taken from me.

I so hated what I was that I have tried suicide twice and been locked up in mental wards. It's only been in the last 10 years or so that I decided that if I were going to survive that I find a way to accept and even love myself.

There was no way I could make my religious training and my "choice" to be gay co-exist with each other and so one had to go by the way side as there is no room for my kind.

So there you have it.

What would you like to know NOW?

You have kids? I remember hearing from a man that runs a ministry for gays out of a church here in SoCal. He says it's not a born this way or choice issue. It's a carnal nature issue which we all have. The choice isn't to be attracted to other men or women. The choice is to act on it. We all have a carnal or flesh nature and we all have to wrestle with it. It doesn't necessarily mean you will stop being attracted to others of the same sex, not anymore than I will be attracted to every hot looking woman out there. I still have the ability to commit adultery or lust, even married men.

That's my opinion

[Azzan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

... You have kids? ...

Yes I do.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Azzan

Yes I do.

Where you any bit attracted to your wife? (Im assuming that was how you got kids)

[Azzan]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Where you any bit attracted to your wife? (Im assuming that was how you got kids)

I could function with my spouse if that is what you mean.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Azzan

Thank you. Would you be surprised to know that I don't think homosexuality is the preferred condition?

The first sentence of your last paragraph is quite interesting. I wonder how others here feel about your statement?

I'd be interested as well, although I think I know what most would think. But I, personally, wouldn't automatically oppose.

[Admin]

An introduction to AFF policy for newbies and refresher for others:


From the Admin of the Apostolic Friends Forum

As Christians, our response to the issue of homosexuality is twofold:

1. Homosexuality is one of many sins that bring destruction and pain to the life of the sinner. There can be no positive outcome of sin, so compassion for the sinner requires that we lovingly apprise them of their need for change. Withholding truth from the lost is not a loving or compassionate response to their state. Therefore the forum will not shy away from noting what is sin from a scriptural standpoint, providing that truth is shared in love.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2. The Christian response to a sinner should be the same, no matter what the sin. We should respond with a biblically based solution that illustrates clearly the sinful nature of any particular deed, and also clearly illustrates the compassionate response of Christ to sin. He offers forgiveness to the repentant, plain and simple, and new life in Him. It is not judgmental to acknowledge what is sin, and in fact it is destructive to turn a blind eye to sin. If the lost are not convinced that they are in a position of estrangement from God, they will never be able to come to a place of repentance and be a recipient of His mercy. Therefore, as Christians, both on this forum, and in our personal lives, we should seek to lead sinners to repentance, so they might find new life in Christ.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

As forum Admin, we will not allow the gay agenda to be pushed on this forum. Meaning, we will not allow a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to make those who adhere to biblical values and scriptural truths feel guilty or inferior. We will not allow a push for acceptance of the gay agenda and lifestyle, and call a rejection thereof a rejection of the individual. They are not one and the same, and should not be treated as such. A rejection of sin is not a rejection of the sinner.

We will not allow a defense of the gay agenda and lifestyle by more liberal leaning minds, or overt criticism toward those who don't practice a similar tolerance for sin.

There are numerous forums online where the gay agenda can be openly proclaimed, even within Christian ranks. There are numerous Christian groups (using the term loosely) who have decided to accept practicing homosexuals as brethren, and perhaps feel they are practicing the love of Christ in doing so. We feel they err, because the love of Christ involves freeing a soul from sin; not encouraging the soul to continue to wallow in the mire.

Therefore, while we allow debate and discussion on the AFF, and we encourage anyone to join who shares an interest in Apostolic topics and concerns, we will not allow an overt attack on biblical values and truths, and upon the character of those who live and preach the same.

Hopefully this will help clarify the forum's position on the matter, and frame future debates.

[Azzan]

Originally Posted by Admin

An introduction to AFF policy for newbies and refresher for others:


From the Admin of the Apostolic Friends Forum

As Christians, our response to the issue of homosexuality is twofold:

1. Homosexuality is one of many sins that bring destruction and pain to the life of the sinner. There can be no positive outcome of sin, so compassion for the sinner requires that we lovingly apprise them of their need for change. Withholding truth from the lost is not a loving or compassionate response to their state. Therefore the forum will not shy away from noting what is sin from a scriptural standpoint, providing that truth is shared in love.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2. The Christian response to a sinner should be the same, no matter what the sin. We should respond with a biblically based solution that illustrates clearly the sinful nature of any particular deed, and also clearly illustrates the compassionate response of Christ to sin. He offers forgiveness to the repentant, plain and simple, and new life in Him. It is not judgmental to acknowledge what is sin, and in fact it is destructive to turn a blind eye to sin. If the lost are not convinced that they are in a position of estrangement from God, they will never be able to come to a place of repentance and be a recipient of His mercy. Therefore, as Christians, both on this forum, and in our personal lives, we should seek to lead sinners to repentance, so they might find new life in Christ.

Romans 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Romans 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

As forum Admin, we will not allow the gay agenda to be pushed on this forum. Meaning, we will not allow a constant barrage of rhetoric designed to make those who adhere to biblical values and scriptural truths feel guilty or inferior. We will not allow a push for acceptance of the gay agenda and lifestyle, and call a rejection thereof a rejection of the individual. They are not one and the same, and should not be treated as such. A rejection of sin is not a rejection of the sinner.

We will not allow a defense of the gay agenda and lifestyle by more liberal leaning minds, or overt criticism toward those who don't practice a similar tolerance for sin.

There are numerous forums online where the gay agenda can be openly proclaimed, even within Christian ranks. There are numerous Christian groups (using the term loosely) who have decided to accept practicing homosexuals as brethren, and perhaps feel they are practicing the love of Christ in doing so. We feel they err, because the love of Christ involves freeing a soul from sin; not encouraging the soul to continue to wallow in the mire.

Therefore, while we allow debate and discussion on the AFF, and we encourage anyone to join who shares an interest in Apostolic topics and concerns, we will not allow an overt attack on biblical values and truths, and upon the character of those who live and preach the same.

Hopefully this will help clarify the forum's position on the matter, and frame future debates.

I am sorry my posts were taken as an intent to promote the gay lifestyle. That wasn't my intention and I apologize. I have only been responding to questions. I will go back to lurking. Thanks all. Carry on.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Azzan

I could function with my spouse if that is what you mean.

Well obviously :-) but what I really mean was were you attracted to her?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Azzan

I am sorry my posts were taken as an intent to promote the gay lifestyle. That wasn't my intention and I apologize. I have only been responding to questions. I will go back to lurking. Thanks all. Carry on.

I don't think it was Azzan. It serves more as a warning to the entire board to not allow the discussion to head that direction