Juan Williams

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

O'Reilly's remarks were far more ignorant.

"Muslims killed us."

Even Williams distanced himself with those remarks in the same context on the show.

I knew what he meant. They all knew what he meant. Those guys were Muslims who acted on their extremists Islamic ideology. I didn't think from what Bill said that he meant all muslims.

If he said "people killed us" nobody would think he meant all people.

I think from experience that the context of WHO said such words matters to Liberals. Conservatives get roasted. Liberals get less harsh treatment

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I knew what he meant. They all knew what he meant. Those guys were Muslims who acted on their extremists Islamic ideology. I didn't think from what Bill said that he meant all muslims.

If he said "people killed us" nobody would think he meant all people.

I think from experience that the context of WHO said such words matters to Liberals. Conservatives get roasted. Liberals get less harsh treatment

Prax,
O'Reilly purposefully got things stirred up. O'Reilly framed the discussion in a way that says Muslims, as a single group, were responsible for killing us. People is general. Muslims is specific. There's a difference.

You may be right. Maybe... but O'Reilly deserved to be roasted. He didn't attempt to bring it back to discussion, he did what he does on his show: raise his voice, talk over everyone else and stubbornly keep repeating his position. Savage could have done better.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

O'Reilly's remarks were far more ignorant.

"Muslims killed us."

Even Williams distanced himself with those remarks in the same context on the show.

NPR can't fire O'Reilly

Do you say they were not Muslims?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Scary thought, huh? Can you see Russia from your office window?

I can see November from my house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdDqSvJ6aHc

Most libs don't know Tina fey from the real Gov Palin.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Prax,
O'Reilly purposefully got things stirred up. O'Reilly framed the discussion in a way that says Muslims, as a single group, were responsible for killing us. People is general. Muslims is specific. There's a difference.

You may be right. Maybe... but O'Reilly deserved to be roasted. He didn't attempt to bring it back to discussion, he did what he does on his show: raise his voice, talk over everyone else and stubbornly keep repeating his position. Savage could have done better.

I disagree for this reason. The View directed the conversation to the issue of Muslims and the Mosque. Their questions to him were very pointed "why" soliciting a pointed response. Why are Americans against this Mosque being built there? His answer was it was Muslims that attacked us. That was Bill Os take on why most Americans were against this mosque being built so close. Sounds like an honest answer as to why most Americans and New Yorkers feel that way about the Mosque's location

Muslims are specific. Those hijackers were MUSLIMS and were attacking us in the name of their religion and THAT was an answer to the questions and comments they were directing AT BO...

That was why they had him on The View. It was all set up. When you dialog with your brain and not your emotions you say "Bill, do you mean ALL muslims attacked us on 9/11?" which is a pretty dumb thing to ask. How can BO really mean ALL Muslims attacked us on 9/11? Now if he said "Muslims want us dead", yeah that is a generalization.

But He was not generalizing. He was identifying why most Americans feel the way they do about the mosque so close to ground zero and the answer is that it was muslims that attacked us on 9/11. Every one of those Terrorists involved were Muslims and that is why New Yorkers and most Americans, in the opinion of BO, do not favor the Mosque being built so close to 9/11.

It's a matter of logic and objectivity vs emotions and subjectivity. Sadly though Bill proved it that night, with the help of Whoopi and the other lady and I bet most Americans just didn't get it

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Prax,
O'Reilly purposefully got things stirred up. O'Reilly framed the discussion in a way that says Muslims, as a single group, were responsible for killing us. People is general. Muslims is specific. There's a difference.

You may be right. Maybe... but O'Reilly deserved to be roasted. He didn't attempt to bring it back to discussion, he did what he does on his show: raise his voice, talk over everyone else and stubbornly keep repeating his position. Savage could have done better.

Oh BTW. I watched the clip from the view. He had several people yelling at him at the same time. I would expect him to raise his voice and try to talk over those people. They were making charges, asking questions and the only way he could be heard to response is if he raised his voice.

He should be given a chance to explain and when he was finally able to get a word in he explained and apologized to anyone that misunderstood his point. My question is, why did I get his point? Why didn't Whoopie get it?

Here is why I think so. People are so accustomed to viewing others in a certain light that rather than listening objectively and planning on having a rational calm discussion, they are already primed and peed for confrontations. They've already emotionalized the topic of Muslims in America so anything Bill says won't be understood IN IT'S CONTEXT. I understood it.

Juan Williams is, sadly, a victim of that same mentality. That is why I say, Im sad to see it happen to him personally but glad it happened because it shows what im saying. People are on the edge on racism, politics and religion. I blame the media. I blame people like Whoopie who played the drama queen. The audience applauded but most likely they turned the applause light on but Barbara Walters was good about rebuking that behavior...the knee jerk reactionary behavior. And what was the result? Bill explained what he meant, not that I think he needed to, and apologized. Those ladies came out like spoiled little girls "well you apologized so, ok we came back out" good grief.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by notofworks

"Those muslims on planes are dangerous!"

That is exactly what he implied.

Why is he uncomfortable?

Maybe it's because he doesn't trust them.

Why doesn't he trust them?

9-11.

Oh well that makes perfect sense-- and it would if you want to allow yourself to be prejudiced.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by notofworks

But I don't see the real damage in Williams' statements.

It is simply what he implied.

His statement, left unchallenged, codifies prejudice against Muslims.

He was fired in short order-- a very good decision given his national prominence and his position with a news agency that will not tolerate prejudice at all.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It is simply what he implied.

His statement, left unchallenged, codifies prejudice against Muslims.

He was fired in short order-- a very good decision given his national prominence and his position with a news agency that will not tolerate prejudice at all.

PC police. Women against Drunk drivers do it. They lose kids to drunk drivers and how dare they speak against drunk drivers. Most drunk drivers have never killed anyone.

Many drunks on the road are fine judges, catholic priests, laborers and good people.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

With all the bombings, planes being flown into our buildings, shoe bombers, soldier killings, ships being attacked, ("by Muslims") is there anyone on this forum that would place their hand on the Bible and the other hand on the AFF screen on your computer and say that when you get on a plane and there are Muslims, (known by the way that they dress) on board, that you don't have some element of unrest and concern come over you?

BT

Doesn't make it right.

I am prejudiced and I know it.

I have two combat tours, one in the middle east and one in central asia. I am prejudiced.

I live in an American city with billboards in Spanish. I am prejudiced.

The numbered streets in Orlando-- that's where much of the crime happen late at night and the people who live in that area are predominantly black. I am prejudiced.


I am prejudiced on many levels at many time in many situations.

I am human. I am prejudiced.


I have enough respect for myself and the people around me to keep my "id" at bay.