ECF's and Post Conversion Reception of the Spirit

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm fairly certain that Catholics believe that the Holy Ghost is received at Baptism or immediately thereafter. The quote on tertullian can be read as him believing the Holy Ghost comes immediately after baptism. There is nothing problematic with him saying this. Note that even if he meant long after baptism it does not show he felt speaking in tongues or any other sign would accompany the reception of the Holy Ghost. So this quote does not support your view of reception of the Holy Ghost.

In the Apostolic Tradition Hippolytus cites a number of practices regarding baptism that you do not agree with. One of the passages that stood out the most to me was: "2When they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring or a flowing body of water. 3Then they shall take off all their clothes." (21) http://www.bombaxo.com/hippolytus.html

Of course, other than all the other doctrines and practices he cites that you don't agree with, he does cite the one that does prove that he prayed over people to recieve the Holy Ghost long after they were baptized. Of course the whole account is rather detailed and he never mentions that the convert will speak in tongues in that process. All he says the convert will say is: "And the one who has been baptized shall say, "And with your spirit."" (21). So while Hippolytus at first appears to support your position, after reading his rather detailed account, tongues are still absent... I guess he doesn't support your view so much after all...

I'll get to the third one later.

These quotes are from believers who lived BEFORE the Roman Catholic Church took control. So your reference to Catholics doesn't really apply.

The point these quotes make is that some folks in the early days of the church (200's AD), believed and taught that reception of the Spirit comes sometime AFTER faith/conversion. Similar to Acts 8 and different from the "one-stepper" view.