NOW, When Is Someone Saved? - Page 18

Jeffrey · #**171** 10-24-2010, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kayl

Romans 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Touche'

In Romans 10, the context is faith.

In 2 Thess 1, the context is faith/believing (it's actually an introduction to a letter, but still...)

1 Peter 4:17 the context is trusting God (v19)

But touche' on your response. I will tell you though, my point was that the Gospel is not an edict. It's a Message. How do we "obey the Message?" We believe it. More importantly, we believe in the Person whom the Message is regarding.

Adam · #**172** 10-24-2010, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Well, what is the context?

I know your point, defending the honor of God's house. If we did the same today, we'd have 911 called on us and taken away by the police. Well, yeah, that did eventually happen to him.

Adam · #**173** 10-24-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

I Peter 2:23 He did not retaliate when he was insulted.

Oh yes he did. That whip thing. Remember? I suppose Peter just forgot.

Hoovie · #**174** 10-24-2010, 09:34 PM

Hey Adam, you are close to my BIL in Murpheysboro, IL. Have you ever visited Christ Community Church?

notofworks · #**175** 10-24-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Yes. Believers get baptized. One does not get baptized in order to become a believer. Nevertheless, I can't think of any good reason to not be baptized immediately and in conjunction with conversion.

I'll be glad to pass on to you the baptism study guide I wrote for our church. You can read it and finally understand it all!

Adam · #**176** 10-24-2010, 09:35 PM

And so, my fine people of AFF, rage and anger are not a sin. This is nice.

Adam · #**177** 10-24-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Hey Adam, you are close to my BIL in Murpheysboro, IL. Have you ever visited Christ Community Church?

Nope.

Sam · #**178** 10-24-2010, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

...
Regarding John 3:5 - the gravest error of 3-steppers is to proof-text the verse through Acts 2:38, instead of letting the context of John interpret John. Read the full Chapter and then tell me what you get from this "rebirth." I will tell you, when I saw grace for the first time, I could only describe it as being "born again." It fit so perfectly. It was an action of the Spirit in a regenerated heart to see and proclaim the Messiah.

Three thoughts on John 3:5.

1. Those who think "born of water" here means water baptism are teaching the Roman Catholic doctrine that water baptism is necessary to be saved, to wash away sin and that it births one into the family of God. Here is a note at John 3:5 in my Douay (Roman Catholic) Bible. The Bible is official. It has the imprimatur of Bernardus Cardinalis Griffin dated 14 September 1955. The notes in it were compiled by Bishop Challoner (1691-1781). The note says, "By these words the Saviour hath declared the necessity of baptism...."

2. Jesus did NOT say, "unless a person is born AGAIN of water and Spirit...." He was not saying that water was part of a new or second birth. He was answering the question of Nicodemus about entering into a mother's womb and being born a second time. He was making it clear that the first first birth (the birth of water, or the birth from the womb, or the birth into the human family, or the birth of our human flesh) is different from the second birth (the birth of the Spirit, or the birth from above, or the birth into the heavenly family, or the birth of our human spirit."

3. Here is how one version of the Bible translates John 3:5-6:
Jesus replied, "What I am telling you so earnestly is this: Physical birth is not enough. You must be born spiritually. Men can only reproduce human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from Heaven."