Shular's Church Files For Bankruptcy - Page 5

notofworks · #41 10-25-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Ya, me too. One would have assumed that it was paid off long ago.

I believe this debt is to venders, not for the property itself.

crakjak · #42 10-25-2010, 11:12 PM

Dr. Schuler's words helped me at a critical time, of transition, and I believe his ministry of "possibility thinking" has helped many folks over the years. I pray that God will show them the paths that He has set before them and give them the courage to walk in them.

All the folks there are God's creation and loved by Him, but all organizations must change and grow, otherwise they shrink and become a shadow of their former selves. And many organizations simple go away.

I haven't watch the TV program for years, except in just passing, so I don't know enough about them to comment further.

Hoovie · #43 10-25-2010, 11:22 PM

Atlanta Bishop you really are hard core, dude! No wonder you and Epley can be so chummy - you still have lot's to agree on. Not saying that's bad, just an observation.

Level with me now, do you really "know" the Schullers? (Most here aren't even spelling his name right) I remember reading his book "Tough Times Never Last but Tough People Do". I think it was then that I realized one must "give a little extra" and go "a little further" if he would excel at anything in life. If we just do the average than we can expect the average or less - especially so in the "Tough Times".

Apocrypha · #44 10-26-2010, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

And Seekerman, How much did you give and exactly how is it YOUR business? What investment did YOU make? Let me guess... the same as the rest of the stingy, tightwad, self centered, anti-tithe thieves that steal a dime out of every dollar that God has given you the ability to make. I have not an ounce of respect for a man that refuses to tithe. I wouldn't take my coat off in your house as if you would steal from God, you would do everything to steal from a minister of His Word. Guys like you are leaches and suck everything out and never give an ounce back and run the ministry down like dogs. Shame on you. If you don't put anything in - it is NONE of your business what a CHURCH does with what they are given. NONE of YOUR business!
Guys like you make me want to send an offering to the Crystal Cathedral. Dr. Schuler has been kind and hospitable to me and I have enjoyed his program for years. I encourage those who are reading this to make an investment to the Crystal Cathedral so that they can keep on keeping on! God bless Dr. Schuler and the Crystal Cathedral Ministries!

The early gentile church didn't tithe, they gave according to their ability. Its the the Pre-Nicene Church Fathers writings.

Clement of Rome (c95), Justin Martyr (c150), Irenaeus (c150-200) and Tertullian (c150-220) all opposed tithing as a strictly Jewish tradition. The Didache (c150-200) condemns traveling apostles who stay longer than three days and ask for money. And travelers who decided to remain with them were required to learn a trade. These early opponents of tithing are not quoted by tithe-teachers. ...

And if you want the Levitical tithe... are you going to SPEND IT like the bible commands.. and which of the 3 tithes are we talking about on the 7 year schedule?

From Irenaenus’ Popular Book – Against Heresies

Chapter XIII.-Christ Did Not Abrogate the Natural Precepts of the Law, But Rather Fulfilled and Extended Them. He Removed the Yoke and Bondage of the Old Law, So that Mankind, Being Now Set Free, Might Serve God with that Trustful Piety Which Becometh Sons.

Section 3

“And for this reason did the Lord, instead of that [commandment], `You shall not commit adultery,’ forbid even concupiscence; and instead of that which runs thus, `You shall not kill,’ He prohibited anger; and instead of the law enjoining the giving of tithes, to share all our possessions with the poor; and not to love our neighbors only, but even our enemies; and not merely to be liberal givers and bestowers, but even that we should present a gratuitous gift to those who take away our goods”

ThePastorsCoach · #45 10-26-2010, 06:05 AM

Apocrypha, Thou art WRONG! Hebrews 7:8 Our Lord Jesus taught tithe and tithe was a NT principle. I am not going to debate with stingy, self centered tightwads that want to rob God of what belongs to Him. The TITHE is Apostolic and if you don't believe it - go on a NON-APOSTOLIC FRIENDS FORUM!
You guys want to come on an Apostolic Forum and spew this lying doctrine that makes thieves out of people. You have been warned of your deception and rebellion against God and his Church. Get right and repent and as God to forgive you for being a thief.

Digging4Truth · #46 10-26-2010, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Apocrypha, Thou art WRONG! Hebrews 7:8 Our Lord Jesus taught tithe and tithe was a NT principle. I am not going to debate with stingy, self centered tightwads that want to rob God of what belongs to Him. The TITHE is Apostolic and if you don't believe it - go on a NON-APOSTOLIC FRIENDS FORUM!
You guys want to come on an Apostolic Forum and spew this lying doctrine that makes thieves out of people. You have been warned of your deception and rebellion against God and his Church. Get right and repent and as God to forgive you for being a thief.

God was directed his talk in Malachi 3 to the priests. God was angry because the priests were not following the God prescribed handling of the tithe which is... 10% of the tithe goes to the priests... another 10% goes to the Levites, porters, musicians etc... and the rest goes to the storehouse to feed the poor, the widows etc.

I think God would be equally as angry today because those who love the law of the tithe so much sure don't love the manner in which God commanded that it be distributed. No one preaches that.

But I will refrain from a rant complete with a long list of names to call you. It is not in my nature. I put that nature away long ago in favor of the nature of one higher than myself.

ThePastorsCoach · #47 10-26-2010, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

God was directed his talk in Malachi 3 to the priests. God was angry because the priests were not following the God prescribed handling of the tithe which is... 10% of the tithe goes to the priests... another 10% goes to the Levites, porters, musicians etc... and the rest goes to the storehouse to feed the poor, the widows etc.

I think God would be equally as angry today because those who love the law of the tithe so much sure don't love the manner in which God commanded that it be distributed. No one preaches that.

But I will refrain from a rant complete with a long list of names to call you. It is not in my nature. I put that nature away long ago in favor of the nature of one higher than myself.

ROFL!!!!!!! HOW SANCTIMONIOUS! LOL This post is a bald face LIE! The WHOLE NATION had robbed God! Why do you guys only take bits and pieces of the Word to prop up your thieving ways?
REPENT and give your TITHE unto the LORD!

Digging4Truth · #48 10-26-2010, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

ROFL!!!!!!! HOW SANCTIMONIOUS! LOL This post is a bald face LIE! The WHOLE NATION had robbed God! Why do you guys only take bits and pieces of the Word to prop up your thieving ways?
REPENT and give your TITHE unto the LORD!

We don't. We study it for what it says rather than polly parrot what we were told things meant.

Malachi 3:8 is not saying the whole nation robbed God. It is stating that the priests had robbed God... even the whole nation. ie... They had not only robbed God but they had robbed the entire nation.

We're not leaving it out. We are simply interpreting it per the context of the chapter and in harmony with the other writings of Malachi's contemporaries.

tbpew · #49 10-26-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notofworks

Nope, certainly no prosperity gospel. And...no "Power of positive thinking", either. It's "Possibility Thinking."

Things have been rough since two things....since Schluer's son was ousted and since the economy went in the tank. Schuler's daughter is now the senior pastor and honestly, the program is tough to watch now. It's obvious she has some charismatic leanings and it just doesn't jive with the culture of the glass cathedral.

I've long admired the senior Schuler. Take a look at the "Possibility Thinker's Creed":

When faced with a mountain,
I WILL NOT QUIT!

I will keep on striving
until
I climb over,
find a pass through,
tunnel underneath,

or

simply stay
and
turn the mountain
into a gold mine
with
God's help!!

This kind of "almost sounds right" stuff is what can snare honest-hearted immature seekers into resenting God if their much-repeated petitions go unfullfilled.

We are led, we do not lead God.
Consider how Satan tempted Jesus to evoke action from heaven, Jesus' response..."It is written, thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" [Mt 4:7 or Lk 4:12]

Faith comes by hearing. Faith is NOT the product of conjuring up a good idea and wishing really, really hard...without ceasing.

Are we tempting God? Is presumption a quality that God rewards? NO! Faith is a response (an AMEN) to a heavenly utterance (an unseen evidence). Ourhope is established upon the fact that you have been witness to its certainty on earth because it is already established in heavenly places.

Human diligence CAN PRODUCE stuff. Just look at all the 100-600 person assemblies that are able to support 3-4 FT employment lines, 2-3 vehicles, 1-2 buses, 1250/mo. utilities and a $700K mortgage.

...

Jesus provided a clear witness of the operation of Faith:
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" [Jn 5:30]

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. " [12:50]

Jn 8:28-30
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

A similar witness as Jesus' prayer to his heavenly father in Jn 17 includes:
"For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

Please note: I believe we should be faithful in matters concerning UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, but the purpose of this is to train us with a lifestyle that will enable us to be good stewards of righteousness.

notofworks · #50 10-26-2010, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbpew

This kind of "almost sounds right" stuff is what can snare honest-hearted immature seekers into resenting God if their much-repeated petitions go unfullfilled.

We are led, we do not lead God.
Consider how Satan tempted Jesus to evoke action from heaven, Jesus' response..."It is written, thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" [Mt 4:7 or Lk 4:12]

Faith comes by hearing. Faith is NOT the product of conjuring up a good idea and wishing really, really hard...without ceasing.

Are we tempting God? Is presumption a quality that God rewards? NO! Faith is a response (an AMEN) to a heavenly utterance (an unseen evidence). Ourhope is established upon the fact that you have been witness to its certainty on earth because it is already established in heavenly places.

Human diligence CAN PRODUCE stuff. Just look at all the 100-600 person assemblies that are able to support 3-4 FT employment lines, 2-3 vehicles, 1-2 buses, 1250/mo. utilities and a $700K mortgage.

...

Jesus provided a clear witness of the operation of Faith:
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me" [Jn 5:30]

"And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak. " [12:50]

Jn 8:28-30
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

A similar witness as Jesus' prayer to his heavenly father in Jn 17 includes:
"For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me."

Please note: I believe we should be faithful in matters concerning UNRIGHTEOUS MAMMON, but the purpose of this is to train us with a lifestyle that will enable us to be good stewards of righteousness.

How in the heck did you get all THAT from the Possibility Thinker's Creed???? Little bit of a stretch, don'tchathink?