Real LOve - Page 2

Sweet Pea · #11 11-01-2010, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

Refusing to warn a person about the consequence of sin is the most unloving, uncaring, and selfish, action imaginable.

Agreed - HOWEVER, if done in a condemning manner and not done in love after much prayer and fasting, it is just as unloving, uncaring and selfish as not warning them!

And what are the motives behind it? Are you truly concerned about their soul - or are you more concerned about how their "sin" reflects on you - as their pastor, leader, parent, grandparent, aunt, uncle, sibling, child, etc etc.

Adam · #12 11-01-2010, 10:12 PM

Amen, Sweet Pea. Now here is someone after God's own heart.

Praxeas · #13 11-01-2010, 10:15 PM

What helped you the most Berk? People that loved you despite your failures or someone telling you what you already know, over and over and over?

Someone that spent years hearing this stuff and feeling increasingly guilty and desperate even to the point of suicide and already knows what the bible says doesn't need to be told over and over to repent or "Homosexuality is a selfish, depraved condition" or "Homosexuality is a sin, a perversion, and an abomination."."Homosexuality will keep you from heaven." "You cannot be a Christian and be a homosexual." "Unrepentant homosexuals will go to Hell."

This was all done in a thread to welcome this individual. Not one person suggested he does not need to repent or that any sin was ok. But here is a person that by his own admission has struggled with this feeling for years, knows what the bible says, even that he is lost according to what the word says, yet still has issues with same sex attractions. I think he needs solutions. What I saw was not a solution but an ultimatum.

And the problem I have isn't that I think the word of God speaks against many forms of sexual sins including homosexual sins but that this sort of approach just makes people who struggle with this hide their struggle rather than get help because they fear us. They fear being ostracized. They pray and pray and fast for deliverance and rather than trying to help these individuals we tell them how perverted they are and that they are going to hell.

It doesn't work for Fred Phelps.

Its one thing to tell someone "Look I don't condone homosexual behavior but I'll be your friend if ever you need my help" and the above quotes by Charnock.

There is a time and a place and a way or attitude.

Adam · #14 11-01-2010, 10:15 PM

Am I really the first one to post this? A rank sinner, without the Holy Ghost dwelling within himself, struggling with Christ's love, even now, this very moment in time? I tell ya what, folks, I am stirred up this evening. I don't know what it is, but lost souls, even my very own, has got me climbing the walls tonight.

1 Corinthians 13
The Greatest Gift
1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Praxeas · #15 11-01-2010, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acerrak

man is there churches that still use that wood paneling on the walls? ancient!

Sadly yes lol

Adam · #16 11-01-2010, 10:21 PM

Imagine for a moment, just imagine, what Paul was going through at that very moment when he wrote that? It is simply blowing my mind this very moment to comprehend it. The inspiration, the guiding of his hand by the Holy Ghost as he put pen to paper. A lot of people rag on Paul about how he was so strict, especially on women (to be silent, etc. whatever), but you read this, and you can see his motivations were COMPLETELY LOVE DRIVEN.

berkeley · #17 11-01-2010, 10:22 PM

Prax,

I will admit, I did not read the whole thread.

berkeley · #18 11-01-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What helped you the most Berk? People that loved you despite your failures or someone telling you what you already know, over and over and over?

No one EVER condemned me to hell... at least not to my face... and YOU know that I am from a very Ultra Con church, originally. Everyone loved me. I had so much support from my youth group... and suprisingly, from my family. The youth group (those that knew of the issue) said that they love me and that it didn't matter what I was going through. They were always there with an encouraging word and prayer. They were not willing to let me slip through the cracks and fall into hell. My family said that they didn't care what direction I took, they support me either way. I wish everyone that struggled with "that" had the support system that I had.

I apologize for sounding like I got on the Charnook bandwagon, and I did to an extent. I just understand the "mindset" all too well that many get if they feel that you accept the lifestyle/sin.

Praxeas · #19 11-01-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berkley

No one EVER condemned me to hell... at least not to my face... and YOU know that I am from a very Ultra Con church, originally. Everyone loved me. I had so much support from my youth group... and suprisingly, from my family. The youth group (those that knew of the issue) said that they love me and that it didn't matter what I was going through. They were always there with an encouraging word and prayer. They were not willing to let me slip through the cracks and fall into hell. My family said that they didn't care what direction I took, they support me either way. I wish everyone that struggled with "that" had the support system that I had.

I apologize for sounding like I got on the Charnook bandwagon, and I did to an extent. I just understand the "mindset" all too well that many get if they feel that you accept the lifestyle/sin.

Thank you

*AQuietPlace* · #20 11-02-2010, 06:10 AM

While parenting my children, I learned that raising my voice and yelling at them was rarely effective. When someone yells at you, you tend to cover your ears and tune them out. It's human nature, we don't like being yelled at. I discovered that *lowering* my voice was much more effective than raising it. I would have their attention, and they'd listen.

Warning of wrongdoing is essential. But how we do it makes the difference between being heard (and making a difference), or being shut out.