Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal...

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Socialite

TJJJ, I wasn't offended or taking occasion of an insult. The Stoneking reference was a humorous sarcasm not aimed at you, aimed at the concept.

Regarding 1 Cor being about headship,authority... this is not universally accepted. Not even by some Egalitarian theologians like Fee. But I see your point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure I see much of the rest of your point. 1 Cor indicates God's design for humankind. We fall short of that in so many areas of times through divorce, death, abandonment, drunkenness, abuse, etc... So this brokenness in the home is universal.

I live in a high-dense area of the country where homosexuality is more common (the phenom of city migration where oppressed groups move to for safety), I think we would need to see more research into violent homes. Honestly, it's the first I've heard of it being a unique problem to homosexuals -- and I can't recall any of my gay friends in the past couple years talking about domestic violence.

So I have 3 things:

1) The Text is not about having two heads, no heads or one head. There's more we can discuss about that. So to launch from this point, I can't even find enough there to do that.

2) The Text is to/for believers and followers of The Way.

3) Realization that the brokenness of homes and God's order is universal, not just reserved for homosexuals.

4) Really don't accept the idea that this is unique to homosexuals, or that there is some dramatic increase in rates... and at the end of the day, not sure that even matters.

LOL We seem to be leapfrogging over each others posts, so forgive me if all is not in order.

I agree with what you say about violence, drunkeness and etc,... this is a universal problem.

I do want to clarify something, just for sake of this discussion. Then we can move on. I am not condoning or condemning homosexuality on this thread. What I am asking is ... What are the observations of those who advocate homosexuality regarding the headship verse. You are helping me to see other angles that will hopefully help as I deal in various situations. I continue to have my own personal stand on this issue, but I am curious as to how the "other" side views it. Again, no offense intended.

Now,...

It does seem strange to me that you have not seen the violence in those homosexual couples you are aquainted with. I have seen it almost universally so far. But this may be just because that may be why they are seeking help for conflict and those that have it together do not come in.

It also seems to me that most of the ones that I dealt with have a Christian background of one flavor or another. Some are even Apostolic/ Pentecostal. The turmoil in their lives is huge. I have yet to see one of those couples go for the long haul. 3 years or more. Zero! Zip! The turmoil in their relationship is huge.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by coadie

Genesis 3

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
After the curse, woman by temperament was created to bond to a leader. Women don't like indecisive, whining, self doubting sissies.

Many arguments come from failure to to have ones expectations met. Many expectations are not valid. Pilgrim women didn't date guys that drove a convertible. It would have been an unrealistic expectation.

You hit on a great point about turnover. The high rate of homosexuality promisciousness stems from quickly finding out that some expections will never be met.

It does appear, and I agree with the opinion, that this is dealing with headship in the home. Again, how does the homosexual household deal with this?

[deadeye]

I have family members and acquaintances that either are in the Gay lifestyle or were there...(one has been delivered and has lived a happy married life for years)

And without exception they all were molested as children or teens, and several of them deal with very abusive relationships....it seems very common in the Gay community.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Socialite

TJJJ, I wasn't offended or taking occasion of an insult. The Stoneking reference was a humorous sarcasm not aimed at you, aimed at the concept.

Regarding 1 Cor being about headship,authority... this is not universally accepted. Not even by some Egalitarian theologians like Fee. But I see your point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure I see much of the rest of your point. 1 Cor indicates God's design for humankind. We fall short of that in so many areas of times through divorce, death, abandonment, drunkenness, abuse, etc... So this brokenness in the home is universal.

I live in a high-dense area of the country where homosexuality is more common (the phenom of city migration where oppressed groups move to for safety), I think we would need to see more research into violent homes. Honestly, it's the first I've heard of it being a unique problem to homosexuals -- and I can't recall any of my gay friends in the past couple years talking about domestic violence.

So I have 3 things:

1) The Text is not about having two heads, no heads or one head. There's more we can discuss about that. So to launch from this point, I can't even find enough there to do that.

2) The Text is to/for believers and followers of The Way.

3) Realization that the brokenness of homes and God's order is universal, not just reserved for homosexuals.

4) Really don't accept the idea that this is unique to homosexuals, or that there is some dramatic increase in rates... and at the end of the day, not sure that even matters.

I would like to contest your statement regarding headship. The text of I cor 11 is all about headship. Paul is emphatic in this chapter about that very thing. Proper authority is what makes a successful home, church, and business. God is a God of authority. The headship issue comes all the way from the Garden of Eden, (as Coadie pointed out).

Now you ask what does that have to do with two heads? Or even no headship? Everything. In a Biblical based family, there is the MAN... the head. Then there is his WOMAN, the help meet. Together, with the man being the final authority in the home, they lead the children.

Maybe what I should have asked was..

How do the advocates of homosexuality reconcile this with their concept of a Christian home?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

How do the advocates of homosexuality reconcile this with their concept of a Christian home?

What do you mean? Who are the "advocates" trying to reconcile this with a concept of a Christian home?

Are you referring to Christians who endorse and support homosexuality as a non-sinful way of living life?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

It does appear, and I agree with the opinion, that this is dealing with headship in the home. Again, how does the homosexual household deal with this?

I will use 2 ideas. One is role playing and the other is mimicry. When kids are studied in play time, they play roles they observed adults live. Our pastors boy is playing with drum sticks, preeching and trying to baptize various creatures.

One partner plays a role to attract the other partner but that creates attraction and doesn't fill their own needs. It gets a little complicated because large numbers of gays didn't mature out of healthy parental relationships. A distant dad or non existent dad is a common example. A young lad will be straight if raised by a dad to manhood. he can be like dad. If a boy is rejected, he may play out a fantasy with another male and never mature to manhood. He will more likely remain close to his mother.
Many lesbians have an unexplained hate for males. An outsider may see it as hurt and they hate males because they were rejected in a real or imagined way by daddy. It is a coping mechanism.

If I borrow an idea from Gary Smalley in Branson, the lack of attachment is often explained by uncovering their greatest fear. If a lesbian is fearing loss of a partner, they get tough, don't submit to prevent being hurt on the partner leaving as they always do. It becomes a predicted cycle.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by deadeye

I have family members and acquaintances that either are in the Gay lifestyle or were there...(one has been delivered and has lived a happy married life for years)

And without exception they all were molested as children or teens, and several of them deal with very abusive relationships....it seems very common in the Gay community.

That, my friend, is exactly my experience.

Let me give you some vague details of a situation that I dealt with recently.

(Names withheld to keep confidentiality)

Two younger Apostolic women got into a relationship with each other. They were not "gay" but both had dated men in the past. One had been on her own for a while and the other had much controversy in the home she was staying.

They moved in together and within a short time were engaged in some acts that would be classified as homosexual.

When I stepped in to counsel some details came out in both their lives that were similar.

Both had been molested as children by the man authority in their lives...

Both resented the man authority...

and both felt that another woman would give better understanding for each others problem.

It had less to do with sexuality and more with broken trust by authority.

After extensive counseling and prayer, one of the young ladies is now married with children. The other is continuing the pathway of homosexuality.

This is just one of the recent cases.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Socialite

What do you mean? Who are the "advocates" trying to reconcile this with a concept of a Christian home?

Are you referring to Christians who endorse and support homosexuality as a non-sinful way of living life?

Correct. Myself, as a declared heterosexual Christian, asking about those who claim to be homosexual Christian. Again, I am not condemning or condoning. I am stating my position so that you may understand where I am coming from.

I use the word ADVOCATE, as I do not have any other word to use. Forgive my ignorance. If there is another term I will use it.

Advocate
AD'VOCATE, n. [L. advocatus, from advoco, to call for, to plead for; of ad and voco, to call. See Vocal.]

1. Advocate, in its primary sense, signifies, one who pleads the cause of another in a court of civil law.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by deadeye

I have family members and acquaintances that either are in the Gay lifestyle or were there...(one has been delivered and has lived a happy married life for years)

And without exception they all were molested as children or teens, and several of them deal with very abusive relationships....it seems very common in the Gay community.

That is exactly why we target orphans in our church. Godly men devote more time to these young lads so they can know what a strong safe gentleman lives like. Actually i have seen character influence in Boys scout troops also. A man is for protection. Not for being considered dangerous.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

That, my friend, is exactly my experience.

Let me give you some vague details of a situation that I dealt with recently.

(Names withheld to keep confidentiality)

Two younger Apostolic women got into a relationship with each other. They were not "gay" but both had dated men in the past. One had been on her own for a while and the other had much controversy in the home she was staying.

They moved in together and within a short time were engaged in some acts that would be classified as homosexual.

When I stepped in to counsel some details came out in both their lives that were similar.

Both had been molested as children by the man authority in their lives...

Both resented the man authority...
and both felt that another woman would give better understanding for each others problem.

It had less to do with sexuality and more with broken trust by authority.

After extensive counseling and prayer, one of the young ladies is now married with children. The other is continuing the pathway of homosexuality.

This is just one of the recent cases.

Two good points there.

Those girls needed to have a strong dad that was safe and strong.
A dad that would protect them from harm and hug them. If they can have a physical Non sexual relationship with dad, they are both less liikely to be promiscious and also delay sexual relationships.

sexual realationships in girls often can be explained by lack of a good daddy. If they get attention from dad, they are a little less likely to crave wrongful attention from boyfriends.

A girl needs to hear she is pretty from daddy. She needs to hear it and know there is no expectation from her for a response. The immature boy friend says she is pretty and wants a kiss.