I'm confused Christmas tree or not?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Paula

extra biblical meaning it's not in the bible? My husband is against it but we have three kids under 5 (well one just turned 6 this november) and I would love to start that tradition. My Church preaches against it though.

why the sudden interest?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Paula

What about Jeremiah 10 verse 3 and 4?

That doesn't have anything to do with a Christmas tree.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Paula

What about Jeremiah 10 verse 3 and 4?

That is about idols, not the christmas tree. Though, dif ornaments on the tree represent idols.

[Truthseeker]

It depends if you think using past pagan customs to try to glorify God is acceptable or not.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Paula

What about Jeremiah 10 verse 3 and 4?

I think it is a bit of a stretch to conclusively derive that Jeremiah 10:3-4 are speaking about the exact pagan custom that ended up being what is now called a Christmas tree. It is, quite possibly, speaking of the cutting down of a tree and carving it into an idol. Of course we cannot conclusively derive that either. So it is up in the air on those verses.

But any prudent and honest student of history would have to conclude that most of the major trappings of Christmas are adaptations of pagan worship.

Therefore it would seem to me that Jeremiah 10:2 would be the more relevant verse...

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

Christianity should never have learned the ways of the heathen but pagan customs are not only learned but so ingrained into Christianity that people will fight you as hard for these things as they will over salvation doctrine.

It makes me wonder when I read verses such as the following...

Ezekiel 8:13 KJV - He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
Ezekiel 8:14 KJV - Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD'S house which [was] toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
Ezekiel 8:15 KJV - Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? turn thee yet again, [and] thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Ezekiel 8:16 KJV - And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, [were] about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Ezekiel 8:17 KJV - Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen [this], O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
Ezekiel 8:18 KJV - Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, [yet] will I not hear them.

God said they were worshiping the sun. Is that what they had in mind? Where they actually praying to the sun or worshiping the sun? Or had they adapted a sun worship ritual and applied it to the worship of the true God and God is calling it for what he sees it as?

In Exodus... This is what Aaron said...

Exodus 32:5 KJV - And when Aaron saw [it], he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, To morrow [is] a feast to the LORD.
Exodus 32:6 KJV - And they rose up early on the morrow, and offered burnt offerings, and brought peace offerings; and the people sat down to eat and to drink, and rose up to play.

Aaron said that the next day was going to be a fest to the LORD.

But in the very next verse God says...

Exodus 32:7 KJV - And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted [themselves]:

So... what they were considering to be worship... God considered to be corruption.

Does God view our actions through the filter of our thoughts or intentions? Or does God see what we do through the eyes of what they truly are and where they truly come from?

I don't think God is impressed with our grand intentions as we convince ourselves that He is.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

It depends if you think using past pagan customs to try to glorify God is acceptable or not.

You mean like gathering on Sunday, the day devoted to the sun god?

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Sam

You mean like gathering on Sunday, the day devoted to the sun god?

Gathering on the first day of the week was begun by the apostles long before Constantine declared it the venerable day of the sun.

This was due to the fact that many in the church were still observant of the Jewish festivals & holy days they had grown up with and meeting on the sabbath proved difficult with the travel restrictions and work restrictions placed upon that day. This made the first day of the week a good choice.

Now... to call Sunday "The Christian Sabbath" or try to place sabbath type significance on the date or it's activities is a little far fetched. But attending service on that day has been in practice long before Constantine was ever even born.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Gathering on the first day of the week was begun by the apostles long before Constantine declared it the venerable day of the sun.

This was due to the fact that many in the church were still observant of the Jewish festivals & holy days they had grown up with and meeting on the sabbath proved difficult with the travel restrictions and work restrictions placed upon that day. This made the first day of the week a good choice.

Now... to call Sunday "The Christian Sabbath" or try to place sabbath type significance on the date or it's activities is a little far fetched. But attending service on that day has been in practice long before Constantine was ever even born.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Paula

extra biblical meaning it's not in the bible? My husband is against it but we have three kids under 5 (well one just turned 6 this november) and I would love to start that tradition. My Church preaches against it though.

Paula -

If your husband is against it, you need to let it go. Discuss it with him, but if he's not comfortable with it, don't push the issue and don't be upset with him for not being able to have a tree with a clear conscience. Having a Christmas tree isn't more important than peace in your home. Hang stockings, hang garland, hang up wreaths, stack gifts on hutch in the kitchen on a pretty table scarf--you don't need a tree to celebrate Christmas.

Christmas is just as much about what you do with your family as it is about gifts. Start different traditions. Our kids know that every year we'll make gingerbread men, we'll go shopping together, we put together a gingerbread house, we go look at lights, we go ice skating and have hot chocolate, etc. There's a lot to look forward to other than decorating a tree.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

You mean like gathering on Sunday, the day devoted to the sun god?

Poor comparison.