HA! He's a perv himself! The Banning Pastor - Page 5

brianmidwest · #41 11-26-2010, 06:14 PM

Sam's a good guy. I take it as a compliment.

Truthseeker · #42 11-27-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've known ministers who had given into temptation and committed terrible sin that were far more aware of various dangers than others who hadn't. One minister gave in and adultery wrecked his ministry and marriage. He's now very aware of the dangers and signs of the sin of adultery when it's overing over a family.

No one i'd sit under.

On The Wheel · #43 11-30-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

David functioned as king, priest, and prophet. Was he used in the roles of priest or prophet after his adultery with Bathsheba?

I'm not aware of any verse that states that an elder can't be restored after adultery or sexual sin. I do realize that to restore one it would have to take time and the congregation in question would have to desire his spiritual leadership. If there is a verse for the idea that they can never be restored to their calling, I'd give it review.

Did David engage in a foursome with Uriah, Bathsheba, and another of his sundry wives? I think not.

Also, David was a king, one who occupied a position for life. Kings remain king until death. However, David's leadership was forever tainted and troubled from that day forward. Yes, he found redemption, but his sin plagued the people he lead until his his death and even afterward.

I suppose that it is theoretically possible to restore the ministry of a fallen preacher in time, but that would be a long time. The fallout and damage done to innocent saints when abominations of great magnitude are committed by ministry can be staggering. I can't imagine any ethical man expose himself and others to that possibility a second time.

MissBrattified · #44 11-30-2010, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

Did David engage in a foursome with Uriah, Bathsheba, and another of his sundry wives? I think not.

Um...what is the point here, exactly? That a foursome would be a worse sin than lying, conspiracy, murder and adultery?

MissBrattified · #45 11-30-2010, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by On The Wheel

IMO, there are mistakes and there are MISTAKES. Even scripture states, "Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body."

Though I don't think these people will "go to hell" for keeping this man as their pastor, there seems to be a high probability that his gross lack of judgment will at some point lead them there.

If I were in that church, I wouldn't be.

We're in agreement there.

Aquila · #46 12-01-2010, 08:31 AM

I believe that God can restore this ministry. However, the minister isn't entitled to being restored to ministry. Should God decide to restore him to active full time ministry it will be a long uphill battle. Let's keep him and his family in prayer.

Sabby · #47 12-01-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that God can restore this ministry. However, the minister isn't entitled to being restored to ministry. Should God decide to restore him to active full time ministry it will be a long uphill battle. Let's keep him and his family in prayer.

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

This word fault is just as easily rendered slide-slipped, or sin. So, if we, according to the word above, are spiritual we should restore the fallen individual.

Two questions need to be answered. What does it mean to "restore", and what does it mean to be "spiritual"?

restore = to complete thoroughly, i.e. repair (literally or figuratively)
spiritual = non-carnal

The question is not IF someone can be restored. The question is, are we non-carnal enough to, in the spirit of meekness, restore.
Ask yourself the question: Is the responsibility for restoration in the hands of the "spiritual elite", aka the ministry, or is the congregation/we as individuals responsible as well?
I think if we were anywhere near as spiritual (non-carnal) as we claim to be there'd be more healing and restoration in the pulpit and in the pew.

Ye which are spiritual is not too hard to understand.

RandyWayne · #48 12-01-2010, 02:03 PM

You (us) can talk about restoration till the cows come home and how God can do it instantly or over the long haul, or whether He should do it at all. BUT... How long does it take to restore trust? Especially when it has been completely shattered -like a pastor who has embezzled, molested, or cheated on his wife. Is someones word of knowledge that "he has been restored!" good enough for him to restart his job the next morning? Would you trust him with your money, wife (if she was pretty), or kids after such a word of knowledge was given?

Sabby · #49 12-01-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

You (us) can talk about restoration till the cows come home and how God can do it instantly or over the long haul, or whether He should do it at all. BUT... How long does it take to restore trust? Especially when it has been completely shattered -like a pastor who has embezzled, molested, or cheated on his wife. Is someones word of knowledge that "he has been restored!" good enough for him to restart his job the next morning? Would you trust him with your money, wife (if she was pretty), or kids after such a word of knowledge was given?

WWJD

Sabby · #50 12-01-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabby

WWJD

And I'll ask the question 'til the cows come home...who is is accountable to God for restoration?

Sometimes parishioners want the ministry to do it all, and they take a pass on the heavier things of the spirit. I'd give examples but let's just get as basic as "doing ministry". What does it mean to be like Jesus Christ? Did Jesus REALLY mean 70 times 7? Did He really take risks?

I completely understand your points and your reasons behind them but that doesn't answer the question.
Are we "spiritual" enough to restore? I'm not excusing the sin, justifying the behavior, etc, al. I'm asking, is the church "non-carnal" enough to do this?
We are not where we need to be in the church until we can restore in the spirit of meekness.

Whether the story of the prodigal is from the Father's viewpoint, the older brother's viewpoint, or that of the prodigal himself, the point of the story (and our relationship with God in general) is all about relationships and restoration.