Why Is The "Christmas Spirit" So Different?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

So one who gives up his pagan customs has a weak conscious? Oh the poer of the christmas spirit and the length gone to misapply scripture for that magical time of year.

No. You consistently mix up what we are saying. The newly saved pagan only has a weak conscience (not conscious, btw) when they do something that was associated with a false god, though an innocent act in and of itself without the element of intention towards worshiping the false god, and it is too much for the memory of the weak believer. They are so pulled away from the Lord with guilt and condemnation that they must totally refrain from such a thing. The activity cannot be separated from the false god worship in such a weak conscience, so they sin against their own conscience.

A conscience tells what is right or wrong. And a weak one is not "educated" enough to know the true difference, and memories and emotional ties cannot be broken from it, so the weak have to stay away from it altogether.

Someone who KNOWS it is a pagan rite, but no more believes the false god exists than a hippo has fifteen elephant trunks, and does an activity for the pure purpose of giving gifts (since gift giving is a perfect example) alone, has a strong conscience. He knows the activity is innocent IN AND OF ITSELF APART FROM ANY INTENT TO WORSHIP.

Again, it is extreme legalism to tell someone they are worshiping a false god when they are putting gifts under a decorated tree for the sole purpose of giving gifts, just because IT APPEARS like a pagan bowing down to a tree and sacrificing a gift to it. When we judge someone for a purposed act of false worship when the person has absolutely no conscious intention of honouring any such non-existent god, WE ARE THE WORST OF LEGALISTS.

[Truthseeker]

That's it, Im done, I go unto the gentiles!!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No. You consistently mix up what we are saying. The newly saved pagan only has a weak conscience (not conscious, btw) when they do something that was associated with a false god, though an innocent act in and of itself without the element of intention towards worshiping the false god, and it is too much for the memory of the weak believer. They are so pulled away from the Lord with guilt and condemnation that they must totally refrain from such a thing. The activity cannot be separated from the false god worship in such a weak conscience, so they sin against their own conscience.

A conscience tells what is right or wrong. And a weak one is not "educated" enough to know the true difference, and memories and emotional ties cannot be broken from it, so the weak have to stay away from it altogether.

Someone who KNOWS it is a pagan rite, but no more believes the false god exists than a hippo has fifteen elephant trunks, and does an activity for the pure purpose of giving gifts (since gift giving is a perfect example) alone, has a strong conscience. He knows the activity is innocent IN AND OF ITSELF APART FROM ANY INTENT TO WORSHIP.

Again, it is extreme legalism to tell someone they are worshiping a false god when they are putting gifts under a decorated tree for the sole purpose of giving gifts, just because IT APPEARS like a pagan bowing down to a tree and sacrificing a gift to it. When we judge someone for a purposed act of false worship when the person has absolutely no conscious intention of honouring any such non-existent god, WE ARE THE WORST OF LEGALISTS.

I don't charge one is actually worshiping a false God with christmas, although it could be idolatry because of a persons attitude or unhealthy importance placed on it, but that can be with anything.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is not it at all since I came into this realization when I was still refraining from it. The idea Paul related in Romans 14 about meats convinced me I was mistaken.

Why would some in romans be refraining from meats? Was because of OT law?

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It does not justify pagan customs, but points out that the intention of looking at it as nothing to do with false gods in reality is the key point to be understood, and the key difference. There is no justification for conscious worship of a false god in a pagan activity. The intention to NOT WORSHIP ANYTHING is why 1 Cor 10 says to not do anything in a pagan temple because temple activity is for nothing but worship. There's no condoning false gods at all when we are saying THEY DO NOT EXIST and any activity done in identical manners that are used to honour such non-entities is just activity. If the heart is not honouring a false god, then whatever activity is involved is simply activity as much as eating meat offered to idols is JUST EATING MEAT.

Why can't you see that?

Speaking of twisting, you have not yet represented our view correctly without twisting it and proposing things we are not saying at all. We understand your reasoning, but why can you not understand ours?

What about when it says to not eat meats offered to idols. I posted that a while back but no one answered that one.

If meats offered to a nonexisted false god then why not eat if not in heart to worship false god.

[Truthseeker]

Folks on both sides of the issues have weak/strong arguements. I asked an anticristmas preacher this: If christmas is idolatry then shouldn't fellowship be withdrawn from those who do it? Man talked about those he was in fellowship with that celebrated it, but then talk about it being idolatry. So if it is really idolatry bible says to withdraw fellowship to not even eat with them. I don't think I ever got an answer from him, just kinda of dodged it.

If us anti folks really think it's idolatry then we are being inconsistent to keep fellowship with those who do.

If it's not idolatry, then what is it?

[missourimary]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

If it's not idolatry, then what is it?

A difference of opinion?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Why would some in romans be refraining from meats? Was because of OT law?

Yes, but Paul also had 1 Cor 8 and 10 in mind where meats offered to idols was involved.

[Truthseeker]

3.Acts 15:29 (Whole Chapter)
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well

[Truthseeker]

OK you guys win, I'm going to get a tree today!


I'm free