Are we to repent for our ancestors past sins?

[Aquila]

And so far in this discussion we've only focused on the social and practical aspects repentance from ancestral sin and its effects.

We've not even delved into the topic of demonic strongholds, demonization, and even curses that can span generations.

[Aquila]

Here's a thought...

Imagine a 20ft glass statue of Adam. Now imagine that this 20ft glass statue of Adam falls... and shatters into billions of glass shards. Each glass shard will be individual and unique. However, each shard (both individually and collectively) is... also Adam. Is it not?

The condemnation of the entire human race is based on a single ancestor's sin - the sin of Adam. And our ancestors after him have only added to the iniquity. And their sins have caused a ripple effect that has had ramifications effecting billions of lives, including our own, to this very day.

Look at the conflict in the Middle East. Is it not traced back to a single act of deception between Jacob and Esau? How many continue to suffer and die to this very day, because of that single sin and the blood feud it created?

[Esaias]

Does white privilege mean there are scholarships, loans, and grants for white people only, for school, business startups, etc?

Does white privilege mean there are White Student Unions at most colleges?

Does white privilege mean an employer is afraid to fire me because I will likely yell racism and sue?

Does white privilege get me a free Starbucks coffee?

[Aquila]

Esaias, these are good questions.

Originally Posted by Esaias

Does white privilege mean there are scholarships, loans, and grants for white people only, for school, business startups, etc?

Do you believe more black folks can afford to send their kids to college, even private colleges, than white folks?

Does white privilege mean there are White Student Unions at most colleges?

Do you think that most colleges, especially private colleges, have a culture focused on minority interests or concerns?

Does white privilege mean an employer is afraid to fire me because I will likely yell racism and sue?

Do you believe most employers have historically hired minorities over whites?

Does white privilege get me a free Starbucks coffee?

Do you believe that the majority of large corporations like Starbucks were originally founded and financed by minorities?

[Aquila]

The truth is that in the Scriptures God has repeatedly spoken of the sins of the fathers when dealing with the current generation of people. And the prophets repeatedly pleaded before God, not only repenting of the current sins of the people, but even the sins of their fathers. And in the NT we see common statements regarding Israel being stiff necked and rebellious, and even having slain the righteous, just like their fathers.

God sees us as individuals, families, nations, and as sons of Adam. No man is just an island. While personal salvation depends upon us as individuals, we are still responsible for righting the wrongs of those who came before us.

The point is... the sins of our ancestors, and their effects, can live on beyond their generations. And we who are redeemed have a responsibility to right the wrongs of our ancestors if they are continuing to cause pain or loss. And if we refuse to do so, when opportunity exists to do so, we are implicated in the sin.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The point is... the sins of our ancestors can live on beyond their generation. And we who are redeemed have a responsibility to right the wrongs of our ancestors if they are continuing to cause pain or loss. And if we refuse to do so, when opportunity exists to do so, we are implicated in the sin.

1) No we do not have any responsibility to right the wrongs done by dead ancestors.

2) No we are not implicated in any sin for not doing so.

Also, you just contradicted yourself...

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't see it as a matter of salvation.

Originally Posted by Aquila

if we refuse to do so, when opportunity exists to do so, we are implicated in the sin.

Being "implicated" in sin would affect salvation. But I'm sure you're going to 'splain that away and say it's multifaceted or what have you.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

1) No we do not have any responsibility to right the wrongs done by dead ancestors.

2) No we are not implicated in any sin for not doing so.

Then why oppose legal abortion? Wasn't that a sin of the past generation, producing a wrong many believe prohibition would make right? Even Christians who do not oppose "legal abortion" support measures to help women in unplanned pregnancies and provide more options to choose life, thereby reducing the abortion rate.

Also, you just contradicted yourself...

Being "implicated" in sin would affect salvation. But I'm sure you're going to 'splain that away and say it's multifaceted or what have you.

Heaven is a rather dynamic place, it isn't a communist eternity wherein we're all equal before Christ for eternity. There will be various measures of blessing and reward in the New Earth based on one's Christian walk. To be implicated in the sins of our ancestors will bring shame and loss of reward, not damnation. For it wasn't originally our sin.

Do you believe that a Christian should oppose discrimination? Most do. For a Christian to not oppose discrimination would be to be acquiescing to the sin of racial of injustice. And thereby, such a Christian would be implicated in the sin. You're supposing such a Christian would be condemned to Hell. I'm saying they will face shame before our Lord and loss of reward, yet they will be saved, yet so as by fire.

So, in my position, it isn't a contradiction. It is only a contradiction if I held your understanding. That's why it appears as being a contradiction... to you.

Failing to right wrong perpetuated by the sin of our ancestors may not cause one the loss of their salvation, but not acting to right the wrongs of our ancestor's sin could bring shame and loss of reward in eternity.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Then why oppose legal abortion? Wasn't that a sin of the past generation, producing a wrong many believe prohibition would make right? Even Christians who do not oppose "legal abortion" support measures to help women in unplanned pregnancies and provide more options to choose life, thereby reducing the abortion rate.

What are you talking about? Have abortions ceased? I didn't realize abortions have altogether ceased or that politicians and others aren't currently trying to protect abortions.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Heaven is a rather dynamic place, it isn't a communist eternity wherein we're all equal before Christ for eternity. There will be various measures of blessing and reward in the New Earth based on one's Christian walk. To be implicated in the sins of our ancestors will bring shame and loss of reward, not damnation. For it wasn't originally our sin.

Any scripture for this, or you just pulling stuff out of your back pocket?

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you believe that a Christian should oppose discrimination? Most do. For a Christian to not oppose discrimination would be to be acquiescing to the sin of racial of injustice. And thereby, such a Christian would be implicated in the sin. You're supposing such a Christian would be condemned to Hell. I'm saying they will face shame before our Lord and loss of reward, yet they will be saved, yet so as by fire.

"Sin of racial injustice?" What Bible are you getting this from?

Originally Posted by Aquila

So, in my position, it isn't a contradiction. It is only a contradiction if I held your understanding. That's why it appears as being a contradiction... to you.

A bit condescending, but par for the course with you. As with most posts, yours is always the correct view. Everyone else is an idiot and just can't understand your multifaceted, brilliant mind.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Failing to right wrong perpetuated by the sin of our ancestors may not cause one the loss of their salvation, but not acting to right the wrongs of our ancestor's sin could bring shame and loss of reward in eternity.

Chapter and verse.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

What are you talking about? Have abortions ceased? I didn't realize abortions have altogether ceased or that politicians and others aren't currently trying to protect abortions.

The point is, abortion is only legal because a previous generation fought all the way to the SCOTUS, and won their case. Shouldn't we work to right that wrong?

Any scripture for this, or you just pulling stuff out of your back pocket?

Study the Judgment of the Nations.

"Sin of racial injustice?" What Bible are you getting this from?

Racism is a sin. The Scriptures teach that we are not to show favoritism, that there is no more Jew nor Greek in Christ, and that we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. Racism violates all these NT teachings. "Racial injustice" is institutionalized racism.

A bit condescending, but par for the course with you. As with most posts, yours is always the correct view. Everyone else is an idiot and just can't understand your multifaceted, brilliant mind.

First, why would anyone post a view that they felt was incorrect?
Second, I don't think anyone here is an "idiot". In fact, if I did, I'd not post here. I value your opinions, thoughts, and study.
Thirdly, I wasn't meaning to be condescending. I was only logically explaining why you saw a contradiction where I did not.

Chapter and verse.

Does one really need chapter and verse to support righting a wrong that originates from the sin of our ancestors? We've talked about a few examples quite a bit.

[berkeley]

What a condescending jerk.