Romans 10:9 - Page 11

scotty · #**101** 12-31-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In PAJC theology this would not be necessary although a valid question, IMO.

Forgiveness is available at repentance ... confession of sin....

while remission ... or wiping away of the "body of sin" can only be effectuated w/ a properly administered baptism.

Excellent post!!!

some will rebuke me for the comment , but I have no problem giving credit when its due.

J-Roc · #**102** 12-31-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

Excellent post!!!

some will rebuke me for the comment , but I have no problem giving credit when its due.

I think he was only reporting what the PAJC position is on the matter... not his personal opinion.

scotty · #**103** 12-31-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Roc

I think he was only reporting what the PAJC position is on the matter... not his personal opinion.

really? darn.

augustianian · #**104** 12-31-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

In PAJC theology this would not be necessary although a valid question, IMO.

Forgiveness is available at repentance ... confession of sin....

while remission ... or wiping away of the "body of sin" can only be effectuated w/ a properly administered baptism.

The question still remains unanswered.

The point is that at the moment of faith a person is forgiven and his sins are remitted (which is the same thing).

Another question...

What exactly is a sin forgiven that is not remitted??? That makes no sense.

#**105** 12-31-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustianian

The question still remains unanswered.

The point is that at the moment of faith a person is forgiven and his sins are remitted (which is the same thing).

Another question...

What exactly is a sin forgiven that is not remitted??? That makes no sense.

Perhaps not to you, but it makes perfect sense to me and my understanding of the scripture supports it.

You will not change me and I will not change you.

Let's just all move on now.. the traffic is backing up and I don't have time for the foolishness.

augustianian · #**106** 12-31-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philjones

Perhaps not to you, but it makes perfect sense to me and my understanding of the scripture supports it.

You will not change me and I will not change you.

Let's just all move on now.. the traffic is backing up and I don't have time for the foolishness.

If you're comfortable living with certain conclusions that make no sense then Im comfortable letting you.

However, your willingness to live with those conclusions does not answer the dilemma.

But you do not wish to discuss this inconsistency and I respect that...

God bless you,
a

mizpeh · #**107** 12-31-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustianian

If a person sins again after being baptized...must he be baptized again??

Another question you may want to ask yourself is does the Holy Spirit leave the unclean vessel who has sinned and does he need to be refilled again?

augustianian · #**108** 12-31-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Another question you may want to ask yourself is does the Holy Spirit leave the unclean vessel who has sinned and does he need to be refilled again?

That is not a question I would ask myself because it introduces a false assumption, namely that there is such a thing as a "clean" vessel. Besides that....
Where does it say that the Holy Spirit leaves the "unclean" vessel??

I mean...the sick have need of a physician, not the healthy.

a

scotty · #**109** 12-31-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by augustianian

That is not a question I would ask myself because it introduces a false assumption, namely that there is such a thing as a "clean" vessel. Besides that....
Where does it say that the Holy Spirit leaves the "unclean" vessel??

I mean...the sick have need of a physician, not the healthy.

a

The spirit of God can not dwell in the same "vessel" as sin, so if a vessel returns to sin then yes the Holy Spirit will have to leave that vessel.

augustianian · #**110** 12-31-2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotty

The spirit of God can not dwell in the same "vessel" as sin, so if a vessel returns to sin then yes the Holy Spirit will have to leave that vessel.

Two questions:

1. Where do you get the idea that the Holy Spirit will leave a vessel with sin??

2. Where do you get the idea that the Holy Spirit indwells a vessel without sin??

Until the sin nature is dead (i.e. when this body is put in the ground) the paradox remains that the believer is simil ustus et peccatore simultaneously just and sinful.

The perfectionist denies this except when he looks in the mirror.

If the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean vessel, then how does the Holy Spirit dwell in a vessel at all?? If you say that the vessel is unclean until he/she asks for forgiveness...then I would say that that is ignoring one conclusion to make the case for another because the sinner will not repent until he/she is regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

From grace to grave it's all the work of the Holy Spirit, with all the sin in between.

And that is why they call it grace.

a