Prayers of Vengence: May his children be fatherless

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Hey! If somebody thinks this snow is "vengeance", think again! I'm loving it!

. . .)

What's next? Sunny, 53°F, 10 mph wind, 0% chance of precipitation? Bring it on! I can take whatever you can dish out!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Thanks for the testimony!

You can try it on me, if you like. Not that I'm against God, but, well, read some of my posts and see if you think I may deserve some "judgment". E.g., have a look at my blog: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=25404. And my "news conference": http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=24936. Don't let my good nature and humor fool you. There's one poster (an admin, no less) that sees past it, when nobody else can: http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...387#post866387. I'm a mocker. Subtly () arguing against your faith. If anyone needs a prayer of vengeance against him, it's me! How 'bout it?

*rolls eyes*



Does the sarcasm and cyncism ever get old for you? Life must really be wretched like that.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

*rolls eyes*



Does the sarcasm and cyncism ever get old for you? Life must really be wretched like that.

Life is great, actually.

[Jeffrey]

God is not manipulated by us. It's nonsense to view prayer as an amulet of magic.

David's prayer break the conventional mold all of us maintain that we have to be tidy and neat before God at all times. He exposed his heart. He was fearful. He was worried. In those days, God's kingdom was physical and national. When Israel won a war, it was God's victory. The sword was the way of the world, by the way. God protected His people and didn't just allow them all to perish from the earth.

We live in a New Covenant, and one that transcends national boundary lines and cultural groups. It's the blood of Jesus that makes us different. We are a Spirit family. Our weapons and battle are spiritual, looking on to those on the battlefied as a fellow traveler, with compassion and love.

So the Psalm can be seen in two ways (either/or or both/and):
1) Raw emotions of a man in prayer before God
2) A petition in line with the way of God's people in his time

I wouldn't see it as a spell.

But Timmy, neither do I consider it a polite thing to mock another's faith in God so disgustingly. If you don't understand the passage, then say so -- instead of using it as another springboard for your cynicism.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

God is not manipulated by us. It's nonsense to view prayer as an amulet of magic.

David's prayer break the conventional mold all of us maintain that we have to be tidy and neat before God at all times. He exposed his heart. He was fearful. He was worried. In those days, God's kingdom was physical and national. When Israel won a war, it was God's victory. The sword was the way of the world, by the way. God protected His people and didn't just allow them all to perish from the earth.

We live in a New Covenant, and one that transcends national boundary lines and cultural groups. It's the blood of Jesus that makes us different. We are a Spirit family. Our weapons and battle are spiritual, looking on to those on the battlefied as a fellow traveler, with compassion and love.

So the Psalm can be seen in two ways (either/or or both/and):
1) Raw emotions of a man in prayer before God
2) A petition in line with the way of God's people in his time

I wouldn't see it as a spell.

But Timmy, neither do I consider it a polite thing to mock another's faith in God so disgustingly. If you don't understand the passage, then say so -- instead of using it as another springboard for your cynicism.

I wasn't mocking anyone's faith in God. I was poking fun at godservant25's claim: "I have prayed judgment on people who were against God and it has always worked." Don't you think I'd be a pretty good target for those prayers?

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

God is not manipulated by us.

What do you mean by that? Are prayers of vengeance attempts to manipulate God? If so, what about prayers for other things, like healing?

It's nonsense to view prayer as an amulet of magic.

Is godsservant25's use of prayer "nonsense"?

[Timmy]

It's nonsense to view prayer as an amulet of magic.

And another thing! You may not like the term "magic" (or "amulet"), but isn't the intent of prayer (of the type that asks God to do things) to make things happen that would not otherwise happen, and in particular, things that are contrary to the normal laws of nature? I.e., miracles? Don't call it magic, if you don't want to, but it is, in effect, the very same result.

[Timmy]

BTW, this isn't the first time someone has backed away when their bluff (IMO) was called.

[Godsdrummer]

I only read the last two pages but I have to comment on this line of thought,

"I have prayed judgment on people who were against God and it has always worked."

From my point of view this breaks at least two of the teachings of Jesus. Judge not least ye be judged. Matt 7:1 And turn the other check. Matt 5:39 How some of us can call ourselves Christian is beyond me.

If you have prayed judgement on some one and it works you better ask yourself who your praying to. My understanding of the use of prayer is to comune with God not petition him for our wants and needs.

As one should note in the following verses our prayers are to be between ourselves and God, Verse 6, We are not to be asking for things in this life, verse 7, Other than our daily need (our daily bread) verse 11. So what is our prayers to be? To review our own life and our trespases verse 12 and 13, and to give God honour and Glory and pray his kingdom reign. verses 9, 10 and 13.

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

What do you mean by that? Are prayers of vengeance attempts to manipulate God? If so, what about prayers for other things, like healing?



Is godsservant25's use of prayer "nonsense"?