TRANSCRIPT Of Message By HANEY!!!!!!!!!!!! - Page 11

StillStanding · #**101** 12-29-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Um, yeah... ok Steinway....Believe that if you want to.

As one who who was raised in a non-spirit-filled Episcopalian church, I'll take a Spirit filled church ANY DAY (even with its problems), over a dead Protestant church.

The differences between "us" and "them" are HUGE. The differences are not minor, as you seem to be trying to make it sound.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

TRFrance,
I didn't get the impression that Pianoman was talking about not having a "spirit filled" church. I agree that people are tired of routine.

We do need to step back, in some places, and take our time to allow God to do the work and not we forcing the Spirit to work.

Fortunately, I am in a church that is patient to allow the Spirit to direct us!

Thanks, Pressing On!

I agree that there is huge difference between "spirit filled" churches and Episcopalian church services. Where I don't see much difference is on Monday at work! I happen to work with a guy who's family attends an Episcopal church in Nashville. I must admit that his family lives by the every day Christian principals of integrity and godly attitude as much as my family does. His family takes the birth and death of Christ very seriously.

His heritage tells him that he is doing the right thing, just as my Apostolic heritage tells me that I am doing the right thing! Of course, I think my way is the right way and his family is just caught up in religious tradition!

TRFrance · #**102** 12-29-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgcraig

He can speak for himself, but I believe you misread what he's saying.

Fine, tell me what I misread then. I'm listening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

TRFrance,
I didn't get the impression that Pianoman was talking about not having a "spirit filled" church. I agree that people are tired of routine.

Yes, I understand that part. I know he wasnt talking about having a non-sprit filled church. Maybe you missed the central point I was trying to make.

This is the part I took issue with the most:

""Spirit filled" Christians have as many divorces as other Christians. They aren't anymore effective in witnessing than other Christians. They have the same retention problems as other Christians. etc, etc."

As one who grew up in that kind of enviornment, and had friends acquaintances, and family members who were deep in that type of environment, I take issue with the [unprovable] contentions that "we"
* have as many divorces, (I've heard this often, but where are the statistics? are there any? )
* arent any more effective in witnessing than they are, (interesting , since many/most of the non-spirit filled folks I knew didnt even witness)
* have the same retention problems as they do (every church has retention problems... but what statistics are there that say it's as much of a problem in Pentecostal churches than non-Pentecostal?)

My whole thing is, despite the problems in Pentecostal environments, we're nowhere near in as bad a shape as the non-spirit-filled church world. As one who's familiar with both worlds, I know it's not even close. I just don't think there's any need to paint an overly dramatic, extra-bleak picture of how things are.

scotty · #**103** 12-29-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I agree that is part of it, but again community flows out of commonality. The commonality of the community is that Jesus saves from sin. Awareness of that as the primary issue must be first, then flows community/fellowship.

Most Evangelism in the US comes about by convincing people come to Jesus for life enhancement, health, wealth and prosperity.

And when those benefits come and go, then people drop out. Especially when satan and world come calling to reclaim that person back. They become two fold child of hell, offended at the church because the promises that were given at intiation didn't come to pass.

There are great benefits to serving God, but the main reason to come to Jesus, and stay with him is that he is the only solution to my sin problem.

When I live with that awareness then my primary motivation is clinging to him and with those in the same vein.

Good Stuff

TRFrance · #**104** 12-29-2008, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I was thinking, earlier, that I'm not sure I want to do this, again, in 2009!

As long as there is an AFF, you can expect it in 2010, 2011, 2012...

Pressing-On · #**105** 12-29-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Fine, tell me what I misread then. I'm listening.

Yes, I understand that part. I know he wasnt talking about having a non-sprit filled church. Maybe you missed the central point I was trying to make.

This is the part I took issue with the most:

""Spirit filled" Christians have as many divorces as other Christians. They aren't anymore effective in witnessing than other Christians. They have the same retention problems as other Christians. etc, etc."

As one who grew up in that kind of enviornment, and had friends acquaintances, and family members who were deep in that type of environment, I take issue with the [unprovable] contentions that "we"
* have as many divorces, (I've heard this often, but where are the statistics? are there any? )
* arent any more effective in witnessing than they are, (interesting , since many/most of the non-spirit filled folks I knew didnt even witness)
* have the same retention problems as they do (every church has retention problems... but what statistics are there that say it's as much of a problem in Pentecostal churches as non-Pentecostal?)

My whole thing is, despite the problems in Pentecostal environments, we're nowhere near in as bad a shape as the non-spirit-filled church world. As one who's familiar with both worlds, I know it's not even close. I just don't think there's any need to paint an overly dramatic, extra-bleak picture of how things are.

I see what you are saying. I did miss your point. I apologize.

On the issue of the Org - I only go so far on the input. I'll let you all knock the finer points around.

I will only add - As long as the spirit is moving and changing lives - I'm in! I see it continuing in my area!

StillStanding · #**106** 12-29-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I agree that is part of it, but again community flows out of commonality. The commonality of the community is that Jesus saves from sin. Awareness of that as the primary issue must be first, then flows community/fellowship.

Most Evangelism in the US comes about by convincing people come to Jesus for life enhancement, health, wealth and prosperity.

And when those benefits come and go, then people drop out. Especially when satan and world come calling to reclaim that person back. They become two fold child of hell, offended at the church because the promises that were given at intiation didn't come to pass.

There are great benefits to serving God, but the main reason to come to Jesus, and stay with him is that he is the only solution to my sin problem.

When I live with that awareness then my primary motivation is clinging to him and with those in the same vein.

You have hit on something here! We sell folks on the earthly and heavenly benefits of being a church member, then when things aren't as rosy as the sales pitch predicted, they become cynical of all the benefits.

Pressing-On · #**107** 12-29-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

As long as there is an AFF, you can expect it in 2010, 2011, 2012...

I'm seriously thinking of cutting back in the New Year - 2009.

Pastor Keith · #**108** 12-29-2008, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

You have hit on something here! We sell folks on the earthly and heavenly benefits of being a church member, then when things aren't as rosy as the sales pitch predicted, they become cynical of all the benefits.

People don't like to hear that message anymore, then as I said they become a 2-fold child of hell, bitter, inoculated against any word of evangelism, because they tell themselves been there, done that, didn't work.