Monopoly on Apostolic Identity is no more ....

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Their distinctive was compromised by a huge push right after the merger to establish one group's "identity" at the expense of the other. But if you don't agree that '92 was deceitful then you may not be that familiar with the events and the things that were done.

It was all done to "sanitize" the identy of the UPC and purge the PCI influence. When I was first licensed, every UPC minister was required to read the writings of John Dearing. Brother Dearing was excised and cut out without comment right after '92.

Pel, Ferd agrees with you. He used a double negative in his sentence.

Originally Posted by Ferd
if you are talking about 1992 then I dont disagree with you.


but that is a different argument than what is being brought here.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Pel, Ferd agrees with you. He used a double negative in his sentence.

Thanks Mizzie - sorry Ferd. I'm at work and "multi-tasking..."

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Their distinctive was compromised by a huge push right after the merger to establish one group's "identity" at the expense of the other. But if you don't agree that '92 was deceitful then you may not be that familiar with the events and the things that were done.

It was all done to "sanitize" the identy of the UPC and purge the PCI influence. When I was first licensed, every UPC minister was required to read the writings of John Dearing. Brother Dearing was excised and cut out without comment right after '92. Most of the resolutions and moves since the merger have beeen done to undermine an eclipse the influence of the "PCI's" approach to things.

Pela, re-read my comment. I said I dont disagree with you about 1992.

but that is still a vastly different thing that what DanA is bringing up here. We arent talking about doctrine we are talkiing about women wearing pants and such.

I have always said 1992 was a bad deal. Some men I love dearly were cut off because of that.

this is still apples and oranges.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The UPC was changed in a way that was unethical and deceitful. This betrayed a lot of people. I don't think we need to rehash the outright lies that were told to get the voting ministers to go along with an extra-parliamentary romp.

So what's wrong with "ex-UPCers" who point out these and other errors?

was the change ok....and just the way it was done unethical and deceitful?

ex-upcers are free to exercise thier 1st ammendment rights.

My question is why?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by edjen01

was the change ok....and just the way it was done unethical and deceitful?

ex-upcers are free to exercise thier 1st ammendment rights.

My question is why?

The change would never had been made if not for the deceit. The whole affair was forced upon the org. and even some of those who went along with it at the time would find themselves standing before the General Conference one year later asking forgiveness for the things they had said. But no move was ever made to actually reconcile the brothers who had be shirked. Instead our own brethren were called "excrement" by that resolution's author and tossed out as if that's what they were.

And this is "holiness?"

Your question of "why?" - For myself, I feel now that I was deceived into joining an organization and giving the most productive years of my life to advance the ministries of men who wanted to simply use my youth and enthusiasm for their own cynical ends. I sacrificed and went years without a salary and preached for burned out ministers who were too lazy to crack a Bible but who were always "holier" than I.

I poured out myself to build a church and rally people around the gospel only to see those same people treated like the same kinds of "excrement" that my fellow ministers were treated like. "Why?" Lamentations 1:12-22

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The change would never had been made if not for the deceit. The whole affair was forced upon the org. and even some of those who went along with it at the time would find themselves standing before the General Conference one year later asking forgiveness for the things they had said. But no move was ever made to actually reconcile the brothers who had be shirked. Instead our own brethren were called "excrement" by that resolution's author and tossed out as if that's what they were.

And this is "holiness?"

Your question of "why?" - For myself, I feel now that I was deceived into joining an organization and giving the most productive years of my life to advance the ministries of men who wanted to simply use my youth and enthusiasm for their own cynical ends. I sacrificed and went years without a salary and preached for burned out ministers who were too lazy to crack a Bible but who were always "holier" than I.

I poured out myself to build a church and rally people around the gospel only to see those same people treated like the same kinds of "excrement" that my fellow ministers were treated like. "Why?" Lamentations 1:12-22

And there it is...

Bitterness...Disappointment...and Desperation...

Just causes more than likely... but to what end?

I decided a long time ago I would look past man...because man will always disappoint you... but God never will...

It is difficult but to get ahead it musts be done...whatever situation you are in...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by revrandy

And there it is...

Bitterness...Disappointment...and Desperation...

Just causes more than likely... but to what end?

I decided a long time ago I would look past man...because man will always disappoint you... but God never will...

It is difficult but to get ahead it musts be done...whatever situation you are in...

I appreciate your view Randy - but I am past the bitterness - and my desperation is to try and warn others not to follow my mistakes.

One thing I find quite interesting - for all of those years the people and the org that turned their backs on God kept saying the same kinds of things you just did. I really haven't seen any change in their behavior or the way they do business. Thus, my warning to others.

Sadly, despite my years of service to the UPC, I would warn everyone I meet to simply stay away until the UPC and the people in the "Apostolic movement" as a whole can turn their lives around. I know that there are many, many wonderful exceptions - but for everyone's benefit, just stay away unless you can find a One God church somewhere that doesn't have this legacy of deceit and betrayal.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The change would never had been made if not for the deceit. The whole affair was forced upon the org. and even some of those who went along with it at the time would find themselves standing before the General Conference one year later asking forgiveness for the things they had said. But no move was ever made to actually reconcile the brothers who had be shirked. Instead our own brethren were called "excrement" by that resolution's author and tossed out as if that's what they were.

And this is "holiness?"

Your question of "why?" - For myself, I feel now that I was deceived into joining an organization and giving the most productive years of my life to advance the ministries of men who wanted to simply use my youth and enthusiasm for their own cynical ends. I sacrificed and went years without a salary and preached for burned out ministers who were too lazy to crack a Bible but who were always "holier" than I.

I poured out myself to build a church and rally people around the gospel only to see those same people treated like the same kinds of "excrement" that my fellow ministers were treated like. "Why?" Lamentations 1:12-22

friend i do not think that your pain is not great...or that you hurt is not real...and I will pray that God keeps you in his grace.

organizations that are ran by human men will ALWAYS have deception, pride, and personal motives to deal with. its the fleas that come with the dog.

i do pray that God will grant you His grace to always know that if you served with a pure heart...you were serving Him....not an organization of men...that is sometimes....twisted, selfish, and perverts good to promote person gain.

and on that day...the day that really matters...it will be He and He alone who grants you your reward. God bless.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by edjen01

friend i do not think that your pain is not great...or that you hurt is not real...and I will pray that God keeps you in his grace.

organizations that are ran by human men will ALWAYS have deception, pride, and personal motives to deal with. its the fleas that come with the dog.

i do pray that God will grant you His grace to always know that if you served with a pure heart...you were serving Him....not an organization of men...that is sometimes....twisted, selfish, and perverts good to promote person gain.

and on that day...the day that really matters...it will be He and He alone who grants you your reward. God bless.

Excellent post.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by edjen01

friend i do not think that your pain is not great...or that you hurt is not real...and I will pray that God keeps you in his grace.

organizations that are ran by human men will ALWAYS have deception, pride, and personal motives to deal with. its the fleas that come with the dog.

i do pray that God will grant you His grace to always know that if you served with a pure heart...you were serving Him....not an organization of men...that is sometimes....twisted, selfish, and perverts good to promote person gain.

and on that day...the day that really matters...it will be He and He alone who grants you your reward. God bless.

Thanks edjen01, and you of course are quite correct about this.