AFF represents a lot of people in Oneness Pentecost.
Oneness Pentecost is a very diverse group.
But,
there are some who do not want anyone to question anything,
or to investigate anything,
or to think for themselves,
or to ask for Scripture references to back up what is being taught
and here we have some who dare to question and think for themselves.
AFF represents some in Oneness Pentecost who are honest enough to speak up when it is obvious they are being conned by leadership or being brow beaten into silent subjection.
No wonder "conservatives" do not like us. Some have been bold enough to speak up and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
Many of us represent Christians that are emerging from a pile of bovine feces and traditions that have been dumped upon us for years and we're struggling out to where the light hurts our eyes that have been in darkness for so long and the fresh air stings our lungs as we gasp for breath after being stifled and suffocated for so long.
AFF represents a lot of people in Oneness Pentecost.
Oneness Pentecost is a very diverse group.
But,
there are some who do not want anyone to question anything,
or to investigate anything,
or to think for themselves,
or to ask for Scripture references to back up what is being taught
and here we have some who dare to question and think for themselves.
AFF represents some in Oneness Pentecost who are honest enough to speak up when it is obvious they are being conned by leadership or being brow beaten into silent subjection.
No wonder "conservatives" do not like us. Some have been bold enough to speak up and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
Many of us represent Christians that are emerging from a pile of bovine feces and traditions that have been dumped upon us for years and we're struggling out to where the light hurts our eyes that have been in darkness for so long and the fresh air stings our lungs as we gasp for breath after being stifled and suffocated for so long.
Elder Sam
I don't think it has anything to do with the conservatives not liking you.
The conservatives would consider me a liberal - and I think that AFF has suffered serious degeneration.
Nice try with the word pictures - try shoveling that stuff on someone else - you've been attending a Vineyard since I first saw you come on the forums and btw, you weren't quite so radical in your speech back then. It also would be a stretch to call any Vineyard I am aware of a oneness assembly or a part of the oneness movement. Is belief in the oneness of God one of those vestiges of darkness from your deeply troubled past? Is baptism in Jesus name one of those suffocating forces that kept you from breathing?
You guys like to chatter about one or two guys who had a problem with being questioned. What about the others who were on the forums for years that have simply not bothered over the last year because of the silliness?
From my limited reading in past months AFF has come to represent anyone who has a beef with any kind of spiritual leadership.
Want to be celebrated - write about the evil pastor who spent every service preaching about and abusing you. As if!
Want to be denigrated? Write about faithfully attending a oneness church, tithing and loving Jesus and your pastor and by the grace of God living a righteous life. The vultures will circle.
So Sam, defender of the oppressed and the abused, pick up your shovel and keep on shoveling - I'm probably going back to ignoring AFF again.
AFF represents a lot of people in Oneness Pentecost.
Oneness Pentecost is a very diverse group.
But,
there are some who do not want anyone to question anything,
or to investigate anything,
or to think for themselves,
or to ask for Scripture references to back up what is being taught
and here we have some who dare to question and think for themselves.
AFF represents some in Oneness Pentecost who are honest enough to speak up when it is obvious they are being conned by leadership or being brow beaten into silent subjection.
No wonder "conservatives" do not like us. Some have been bold enough to speak up and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
Many of us represent Christians that are emerging from a pile of bovine feces and traditions that have been dumped upon us for years and we're struggling out to where the light hurts our eyes that have been in darkness for so long and the fresh air stings our lungs as we gasp for breath after being stifled and suffocated for so long.
Your poor abused thing.
Just how long has it been since you were part of a Oneness Pentecostal church?
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
Interesting thread! I like to keep ties with the religious heritage I was given. I have many friends that still are involved in it. That is what drew me to this forum....to discuss issues in a civilized manner.
It does appear that the rules of the game for friendly conversation with the ultra-cons and even moderate Apostolics is to politely give an opinion without questioning anything or anyone. Especially, don't question those that are untouchables or have reached god-like status.
CC1 and some others have the ability to spar and make their point in a humorous way that was disarming. CC1 and I (among others) have the ability to let strong statements from the conservatives roll off our backs and not take offense. We know that is the mindset and expect them to say it when backed into a corner.
What I see from DA and others is using the same tactics as is used against them, thus breaking the rules of the game! The result is a loss of the conservative voice on AFF. Who wants to visit a forum where everything you've been taught to believe is criticized and mocked?
I've learned to live with criticism and mocking the day I left the UPC. I've had my salvation and the salvation of my family questioned by old "friends". I've just figured over the years that it comes with the territory, and I have accepted it. It's part of the process. I am so-o-o past that now! I don't feel I need to waste my time defending my salvation status. I feel as secure in my belief as anyone on this forum.
In my opinion, the conservative wing have never allowed questioning and the new technology of the internet has changed that. Many have put all their eggs in the basket of "faithful acceptance" of a given view, and it is intolerable to try to change that "acceptable" world or religious view. Intolerable.
Thus (like Muslims) Apostolic organizations become more segmented and it becomes a one-way conversation. i.e. We want to build mosques in your country, but don't even think about building a Christian church in our country. It's not an even exchange, and never will be. You open yourself to our ideas, but don't question our ideas!
And so it goes................
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
What I see from DA and others is using the same tactics as is used against them, thus breaking the rules of the game! The result is a loss of the conservative voice on AFF. Who wants to visit a forum where everything you've been taught to believe is criticized and mocked?
......
Yeah, it does break the rules of the game. Because you can't teach love and compassion with rudeness and spite.
It is a huge challenge, however to go from being protected by those radical conservative meanies to challenging them. It takes great wisdom and patience.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
Yeah, it does break the rules of the game. Because you can't teach love and compassion with rudeness and spite.
It is a huge challenge, however to go from being protected by those radical conservative meanies to challenging them. It takes great wisdom and patience.
I honestly don't think many of them think they are being rude. They are just parroting the response to questioning that their mentors and heroes found effective in the past. Many probably think kindness shows weakness! They've got to be hard and strong against opposition.
__________________ Words: For when an emoticon just isn't enough.
I honestly don't think many of them think they are being rude. They are just parroting the response to questioning that their mentors and heroes found effective in the past. Many probably think kindness shows weakness! They've got to be hard and strong against opposition.
I think you are exactly right. The new doctrines are just that....new doctrines until the spirit of the new doctrines are exemplified (inclusion, compassion).
I find it interesting to read my old higher fire posts. I think I was quite kind in them as an ultra conservative (I had remembered myself as not being kind). I think I was probably worse after I left the UPC....kind of dishing out what had been dished to me for so long. However, if I could read those, I maybe wasn't as bad as I thought then either.
Back when I was completely anonymous and there was a lot of speculation on who I was and the old webmaster said he must have thought my husband and I pastored a large church, people gave me a lot of respect. Later, after I was able to be more honest (after the lawsuit was over and we resigned), I said we pastored a small church (although it had been previously pastored by the presbyter where a split happened), I did not get as much respect. Also, people started to avoid me because we left the UPC. It was a strange phenomenon. I was the same person......but treated very differently.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
There was a time when rustic gunslingers galavanted ingloriously.... in testosterone filled showdowns at the OK Corral ...
Rastling with outlaw Posses, rounding up Coon poachers and equalizing Elders. Then, of course, there was Mark and Benincasa .... with Heckle and Jekyll serving as the cheer squad.
Gone, into oblivion, are the Steadfast and IAintMovin'.
NOW, not so much. We spend our time posting baby and doggie pics while opining about ice cream, Sarah Palin, reality TV and what's for dinner.
Was this part of an admin conspiracy, with Praxeas and MOW wimpering along, or is Timmy, or the Mrs, to blame?
Gone pansy or yeller?
* enter rolling tumbleweed*
Yep, it was me. I feminized AFF. Sorry.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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