End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

So far no one has presented a scripture saying a woman cannot preach...the silence scripture does not say women cannot preach....saying it means preach is adding to the Bible...


Oh Brother, here we go again? Yes, the Bible specifically states that women are not to "preach-teach" to men in the church assembly. You are simply in denial & stubborn rebellion to the passage (all with a sweet smile of course). For about the 50th time now:


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner...I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church.


Here is the exact Greek text of I Timothy 2.12: http://biblehub.com/text/1_timothy/2-12.htm


Here is the lexical definition of the Greek verb translated "to teach" (διδάσκειν): In the NT, 1321 /didáskō ("teach") nearly always refers to teaching the Scriptures (the written Word of God). The key role of teaching Scripture is shown by its great frequency in the NT, and the variety of word-forms (cognates). This includes three noun-forms, two adjectival forms, and one verb, totaling about 220 occurrences in the NT (http://www.helpsbible.com/).



Or, here's another lil' diddy fer ya':


Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says.


Since you have repeatedly referenced Dr. Strong in this thread, let's see if you'll equally accept his lexical data on the Greek verb translated "to speak" above:

preach, say, speak - A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words -- preach (http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2980.htm).



You have been told over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over X ad nauseum infinitum that this same verb is equally translated as "preach" 6 times in the KJV (not to mention the Greek professor that sometimes tutors me who stated that this verb can equally mean "preach").


So, you can stubbornly deny the facts until doomsday - won't make it go away! Yes, the Bible clearly says that women are not to "teach-preach" to men in the church. It's like a defiant child staring at the crystal-blue sky & arguing that no "proof" has been offered that the sky is blue .




It says for a woman to keep silence...what my friend knows but will not admit is this scripture was a quotation of a letter Paul recieved...just like he said in other places such as... 1 Cor. 7.....


Umm, watch how easy this is: No, I Corinthains 14.34-35 is not "a quotation of a letter Paul received" - & you have also been shown textual reason why this is not the case. This is just an absurd argument & only serves to demonstrate the desperation of "women-preachers" to force their beliefs into the Word of God. It is YOU who is "adding to the Word of God" & You should be soundly ashamed of yourself for doing so.


But, since you have made this claim regarding I Cor. 14.34 - please demonstrate FROM THE BIBLICAL TEXT of I Cor. 14.34 where Paul was "quoting a letter he received":___________?



Remember this letter was written in response to the many questions the church was asking in another letter. 1 Corinthians 7:1 says, "Now for the matters you wrote about…" The Corinthian church wrote a letter asking Paul questions. I believe the passage you quoted was actually Paul quoting one of the false teachings going on in the Corinthian church. No wonder he could shout loud, WHAT....

I see, using this logic, every thing from Chapter 7 through the rest of the entire book of I Corinthians "was actually Paul quoting one of the false teachings going on in the Corinthian church" ?


So silly.....Paul was not the last preacher to "shout (out) loud WHAT?"

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Let me doucument that statement...But in chapters 7 through 14, Paul was responding to questions and statements that the Corinthians wrote to him. Let’s take a look:
1 Corinthians 7:1 “Now concerning things whereof YOU WROTE UNTO ME…”
1 Corinthians 8:1 “Now concerning things offered unto idols…”
1 Corinthians 12:1 “Now concerning spiritual gifts…”


Ummm, I must have missed the ever-elusive "documented statement" where Paul uses the phrase "Now concerning the things you wrote me" in Chp. 13-14 ??


Guess you just make things up as you go along eh' ?



Paul steps through the concerns, statements, and questions that they have written to him. In 1 Corinthians 12:1 Paul finally gets to the questions and matters about spiritual gifts and says, “Now concerning spiritual gifts…” and states that the “manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man (every person male and female)” (verse 7). He mentions different types of manifestations including the word of wisdom, the word of knowledge, tongues and the interpretation of tongues, etc. Pay particular attention to the words “every man, each man, all members” etc. In these cases, the Greek word for “men or man” means people, humans–not only males, but both genders. The word “all” in the Greek means ALL, not half, not a certain few, not just males, but ALL!


Ummm, of course women can be used in the gifts of the Spirit - how on earth do you think this proves or disproves women in the set-in office of the teaching eldership ?



In 1 Corinthians 14:27-31 Paul sets the ground rules for “speaking in the church:”
IF ANY MAN (any person, male or female) SPEAK:
Unless there is NO INTERPRETER (male or female)…
Let the (male or female) PROPHETS SPEAK…
If anything be revealed to ANOTHER THAT SITS BY (whether male or female)…
For you may ALL (male and female) PROPHESY ONE BY ONE, THAT ALL (male and female) MAY LEARN AND ALL (male and female) may be exhorted.

Hmm, let's count them up: 7 (parenthetical statements) "added into the Word of God" ! Why don't you just write your own Bible - you're effectually doing the same thing anyway (besides, the "context" above is discussing the gifts of the Spirit - so your entire point is moot ) !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Paul actually used their words in his letter when he addressed some of their concerns and said they were foolish and they weren’t of God. We have come to the place of turning the classic bondage Scriptures, 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 into a liberating Scripture for you.
While Paul wrote his response (1 Corinthians) BACK to the Corinthian church, he previously read their letter that they sent to him – 1 Corinthians 7:1, “Now concerning things whereof YOU WROTE UNTO ME….” In fact, he wrote down parts of their letter back to them and rebuked them for their foolish teachings.

LOL - Yea', we surely should've known that everything from Chp. 7 on-ward was what Paul "wrote down of their letter back to them and rebuked them for their foolish teachings" .

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Paul established through his entire letter and particularly in chapters 11 thru 14 that there is no difference between a male and female being appointed and/or receiving the gifts, callings and offices of Christ. Before he wrote down their “foolish scripture” that they wrote to him, he wrote this preface: “God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints” (1 Corinthians 14:33). Then in verses 34-35 he repeated what they first wrote to him: “Let your women keep silent in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the Law. And if they will learn any thing let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

Oh my goodness - you have GOT to be kidding us ???


Where does this particular biblical text (or even chapter) state this:___________?


Absolutely unbelievable (well, kinda').

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Immediately after Paul wrote this, the next word he wrote was, “WHAT?” (v36). In the Greek, the word “what” is a negative disclaimer. We would say, “What, are you nuts?” Paul said, “What? Came the word of God out from you? Or did it come unto you only?” (v36). Meaning, that the previous statement that he wrote from the letter he received from them referring that women are to keep silent in the church was not from God at all. In fact, it was pure silliness.



What is "pure silliness" is the absurd notion that Paul was merely quoting a statement from a letter in I Cor. 14.34-35. And, that Paul's instructions to the NT church here was "not from God at all" - you ought to be rebuked & plumb ashamed of yourself (personally, I'll never give another red-cent to help you in your rebellion to God's Word)!

Guess Paul was just playing around here also eh' (ummm, in the same chapter BTW) :

If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord .




He just finished writing in a few paragraphs before this what we now know as 1 Corinthians 11:1-16, establishing that when women prophesy, teach or speak in the church they are to have their heads covered. “But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered….” needs to put on her head covering and then it would be acceptable (1 Corinthians 11:5).
Paul goes on to say, “If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that THE THINGS THAT I WRITE UNTO YOU ARE THE COMMANDS OF THE LORD,


That's the whole point ??? How on earth you can actually quote the passage where Paul specifically states that what he is writing is God's commandments - then somehow twist it to means exactly the opposite of what it says is as mind-boggling as those who actually claim that "women-teachers-preachers" in the church is actually "biblical" ?? Mind-numbing.


(NOT THE THINGS THAT YOU WRITE)” (1 Corinthians 14:37).


Ummm, specifically where does "I Corinthians 14:37" state another one of your own (parenthetical statements) above:___________? Mind-numbing how you can insert your own quirky notions over & over & over into the Word of God - then attempt to correct others for "adding to the Word of God" ??


Paul was saying that he was appointed to write the Scriptures and the Commands of God, not the Corinthian church.

LOL - Ummm, say whatttttt ?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Paul continues with: “If any man be ignorant (meaning the person who wrote this stupidity) let him be ignorant (if he does not acknowledge that what he wrote is not from the Lord”) (v38).


Exactly! Other than your infamous (parenthetical statements) above (par for the course by now ) - What you don't realize is this passage is condemning those who believe like YOU regarding "women-teachers-preachers" in the church!

Even worse, the original text reads:

New International Version
But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.

New Living Translation
But if you do not recognize this, you yourself will not be recognized.

English Standard Version
If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

New American Standard Bible
But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
But if anyone ignores this, he will be ignored.

International Standard Version
But if anyone ignores this, he should be ignored.

NET Bible
If someone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.


GOD'S WORD® Translation
But whoever ignores what I write should be ignored.


Jubilee Bible 2000
But anyone that ignores them shall be ignored.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But if any man know not, he shall not be known.



Yes, I & many-many-many other preachers would get up & walk out on a women who "ignores" what God has commanded in I Cor. 14.34 - & Paul tells us to "ignore" you !




Paul then closes the subject and firmly establishes about males and females being in ministry and speaking in the church: “Wherefore, brethren (brethren does not mean male, it means ‘born out of the womb of God, born again’ — males and females), COVET TO PROPHESY AND FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES” (v39).

Ummm, what on earth does speaking in tongues have to do with "preaching-teaching" men a sermon?? Plumb silly.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Remember the Talmud and all it's teachings? They were still guided by age old thinking...and it's many anti women laws...notice again...Paul exclaims "What?" Paul is almost beside himself when he reads back this statement from the letter written to him. Paul is not the one making the statement. Paul is quoting from the letter. The fact Paul exclaims, "What? came the word of God out from you?" shows that the statement came from the Corinthian church, and they were claiming to exclude the women from speaking based on the Law, which they claimed was the word of God.

LOL....It just gets worse & worse. Unreal.


No, Paul is not "quoting a letter" in 14.34 - He is writing God's commandments - which you ignore & explain away - & will someday give an account for.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Of course when you recognize that Paul did not teach the Talmud but Grace, you realize Paul would never use the Talmud to prove anything. The author of this statement about women remaining silent used the Talmud as the basis of this practice.

"But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." Paul would never use the Law to enforce any behavior. Paul taught that the Law was nailed to the cross (see Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14), so why would he appeal to the Law to ban women? Paul did not agree with the statement but questioned it.

Only the Talmud had it's strange opinions about woman....there is NO law in the Bible that prohibits women from obeying God...In response to this ban on women, Paul says, "Let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command" (14:37). Paul taught and wrote that the women in Corinth could prophesy with their heads covered (ch 11). He also wrote, "For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged " (14:31). All can prophesy. That includes women!


Of course women can prophesy - And?? How on earth do you think this validates women in the teaching eldership in the NT church ??


The traditional interpretations of these two Scripture citations contradict clear passages that allow women to participate in Christian ministry, even in the assembly.



Ummm, what "clear passage" would that be:_________? 2 Jude? III Timothy 1.1? The Book of I-Say-It? Sure isn't in any books of the Bible !




It appears, so it seems to me, that 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 relates to what the Judaizers were saying, not Paul. I can not find one statement in the Old Testament where women were told to keep silent or could not take a position of leadership.

The old anti women opinion...Barak was a sissy so if God used a donkey He could use a woman...that statement in my opinion is borderline with calling God a fool...God makes no mistakes. He chose Deborah...He put it in her heart and blessed her and cursed those that would not fight with her for God's cause. We need to be careful lest we find ourselves cursing what God has blessed....

LOL - You're right, God makes no mistakes:


11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner....I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church.


Rebel against it until doomsday - It will still be there to militate against "women-teachers-preachers" in the church !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Only the Talmud designates the speech of women as “shameful…

LOL - Guess I copied the following passage from the "Talmud" :


"....for it is a shame for women to speak in the church" (I Cor. 14.35).


Put your eraser down - it'll still be there when you're done dancing on it !

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

no time for this at the present but will be back...

No problem - I'll be here to withstand your error !