Why I Am A Futurist

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can Jesus day the kingdom doesn't come with observation if it will be physical on the earth? He said you can't point in any direction and say it is there. That's because it'll never be physical.

You just denied the resurrection! Sure looks like it, anyway!

Jesus resurrected and was "physical". Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. He then explained we have to experience physical resurrection.

There will also be a new heqven and new earth. Do you deny that? Do you not agree with Paul that the whole creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God?

On a side note how do you explain the kingdom coming as OBSERVED by the destruction of Jerusalem? And did not Jesus say some would not taste of death till they SEE THE KINGDOM? How does that not contradict your notion of non observableness of the kingdom?

Perhsps you have misunderstood what Jesus meant. He did, after all, say some then would SEE the kingdom of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can Jesus day the kingdom doesn't come with observation if it will be physical on the earth? He said you can't point in any direction and say it is there. That's because it'll never be physical.

Mike its not so hard.

The Holy Spirit is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE.
The inheritance is greater than the earnest! The kingdom is presently on two levels.

Now watch this please.

Level a. Present.

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:13-14

Level b. Future.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Peter is writing to Christians who by faith are in the kingdom. Yet he tells THEM if they bear fruit an ENTRANCE shall be granted them INTO THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST!

The kingdom of the Holy Ghost realm....comes not with observation. That realm or walk of faith where no one sees anything. We walk by faith and not by sight.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Mike its not so hard.

The Holy Spirit is the EARNEST OF OUR INHERITANCE.

What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical?

The inheritance is greater than the earnest! The kingdom is presently on two levels.

Right, but What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I believe the kingdom increases exponentially after the end. How can it not? Sin is gone then. But that does not mean it will become physical.

Now watch this please.

Level a. Present.

13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Col 1:13-14

Level b. Future.

10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:10-11

Peter is writing to Christians who by faith are in the kingdom. Yet he tells THEM if they bear fruit an ENTRANCE shall be granted them INTO THE KINGDOM OF CHRIST!

The kingdom of the Holy Ghost realm....comes not with observation. That realm or walk of faith where no one sees anything. We walk by faith and not by sight.

Still... what has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I see no physical kingdom in any of these passages, and you say it's easy to see?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical?


Right, but What has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I believe the kingdom increases exponentially after the end. How can it not? Sin is gone then. But that does not mean it will become physical.



Still... what has that go to do with whether or not the kingdom is physical? I see no physical kingdom in any of these passages, and you say it's easy to see?

Brother Blume, please explain what you mean by physical.

When we speak that way we mean the kingdom will be fully manifested in the physical realm ie resurrection.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother Blume, please explain what you mean by physical.

When we speak that way we mean the kingdom will be fully manifested in the physical realm ie resurrection.

If that is what you believe by physical kingdom then I agree. But that is not the kingdom itself. Like I said, the kingdom AFFECTS the physical realm. And that will only increase. But I was referring to the KINGDOM itself. I already noted to MTD that it seemed we were talking past each other. He seemed to be saying the effects of the Kingdom are physical, but I would not call that a physical kingdom. It's a physcally-affecting kingdom, yes.

What I meant was the kingdom in and of itself will never be physical. A physical kingdom is a physical white house in a certain physical city, for example, with a physical office for the president.

David's kingdom was physically located on Zion in Jerusalem. Our Zion is not a physical place.

That's why I said you seemed to read something into the kingdom that was was unaware of. So, if you restrict the physical aspect to what is AFFECTED, then I agree with you. But the CAUSE is what I was saying is not physical. Not the effect.

That's why I said the kingdom is not physical now, but it affects the physical realm in instances such as healing, etc. But the CAUSE is not physical.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How can Jesus day the kingdom doesn't come with observation if it will be physical on the earth? He said you can't point in any direction and say it is there. That's because it'll never be physical.

Believe the whole counsel of God. Thats the answer to all of our questions. When we take a few verses and make our doctrine all about just them we will err.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Believe the whole counsel of God. Thats the answer to all of our questions. When we take a few verses and make our doctrine all about just them we will err.

Everyone knows that, bro. No where does it say the kingdom is physical. Christ's words disallow it.

This is the difference between talking to goodsamaritan and others.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You just denied the resurrection! Sure looks like it, anyway!

Jesus resurrected and was "physical". Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. He then explained we have to experience physical resurrection.

There will also be a new heqven and new earth. Do you deny that? Do you not agree with Paul that the whole creation is waiting for the manifestation of the sons of God?

On a side note how do you explain the kingdom coming as OBSERVED by the destruction of Jerusalem? And did not Jesus say some would not taste of death till they SEE THE KINGDOM? How does that not contradict your notion of non observableness of the kingdom?

Perhsps you have misunderstood what Jesus meant. He did, after all, say some then would SEE the kingdom of God.

I already answered you. But calm down some, okay. And all these charges. You know i believe in a resurrection. The kingdom itself is not as i indicated the last time you said this. If Jesus was not taking about the lack of a physical kingdom itself, why did he say you can't say it is here or there? He meant the kingdom itself being physical.

But again, wow. What's the brash tone all about?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I already answered you. But calm down some, okay. And all these charges. You know i believe in a resurrection. The kingdom itself is not as i indicated the last time you said this. If Jesus was not taking about the lack of a physical kingdom itself, why did he say you can't say it is here or there? He meant the kingdom itself being physical.

But again, wow. What's the brash tone all about?

Brash? I'm not being brash. Least I don't feel brash lol.

I'm saying that when you say "the kingdom will never be physical" that it sure seems to me like a denial of the resurrection.

I know you believe in resurrection, but I think you are making statements which contradict that. Looks inconsistent to me.

Did not mean to sound rude or gruff or whatever. Texting from phone.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brash? I'm not being brash. Least I don't feel brash lol.

You sure sound like it, accusing me of denying resurrection when you know that is not true. Bad form.

I'm saying that when you say "the kingdom will never be physical" that it sure seems to me like a denial of the resurrection.

How? Physical resurrection is not the kingdom. Obviously your view of kingdom is different than I've ever heard. how does a physical resurrection imply a physical kingdom?

I know you believe in resurrection, but I think you are making statements which contradict that. Looks inconsistent to me.

How?

Did not mean to sound rude or gruff or whatever. Texting from phone.

Thanks for the clarification.

But we are in the kingdom now, and it';s not physical. We're physical beings, though. So why would the kingdom become physical just because we will get immortal physical bodies after having mortal physical bodies where there was no physical kingdom?