Do we have to pay tithes?

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Where in the sermon does he say the above?

Read post 104.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Where in the sermon does he say the above?

"You're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe" is stated approximately 1:21:00 in the message.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by n david

"You're not going to be saved if you don't pay your tithe" is stated approximately 1:21:00 in the message.

No, it is starting from 1:28:00 yet, he is using Malachi 3:8 then uses that to state that you can't be a thief and go to heaven.

Well, I heard it.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, it is starting from 1:28:00 yet, he is using Malachi 3:8 then uses that to state that you can't be a thief and go to heaven.

Well, I heard it.

1:21:43 is the "you're not going to be saved" statement.

[Amanah]

was looking through old threads on tithes and found this

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am sadden some of you had such bad experiences with some pastors like someone quoted Ezk. 34 will get them. But since you have listed your complaints about preachers who evidently are more concerned about money than the ministry itself would you allow me to tell the other side?
In my years of pastoring we have slept in the church, driven automobiles we prayed would make it to the store, bought clothes at second hand stores. I have given my last dime to needy saints, bought their kids shoes & clothes, paid their way to youth camps, took folks to work when they had no car, cleared their walks of snow so the elderly would not fall. My wife has bathed the elderly saints, took thwm shopping and to the drug store and hospital, interupted our own plans to sit at hospitals all night long(many times without so much as a thank you).
Now for the church we have been janitors when some saints would know where the mop or broom is found at the church. If a need for the church came yes I have paid it gladly without burdening the saints and let my own personal needs go. If anyone had to tighten thier belt because giving was lean it wasn't the saints it was us. When revival offerings were low I made up the difference. When some 'forgot' their missionary pledges I made them up. When home missionaries were struggling yes I did without and gave to them. I have helped churches I will never see because there was a need out of my pocket. I have bought struggling preachers suits, shoes, their family's clothes. Fixed evangelist's trucks, trailers. Sent clothes to missionaries. Sold my own goods to saints to give preachers a decent offering.
I am not complaining. But am I suppose to be ashamed because now God has blessed me for being a giver? My cars are nicer, my home is comfortable, my clothes were not purchased at goodwill, I can eat a little better than McDonalds.
I can buy my wife a new dress ever now and then. And might even take a few days off and call it a vacation(though I could be called back anytime).
I have learned givers preachers and saints are blessed. I have yet to meet my first non-tither who claims to give Jesus all give 10%. They are tightwad and thieves and think of no one but themselves. The church could not operate normally much less have revival or support missionaries on what they give. Their 'tithes' is in boats, fishing and hunting gear, cars, homes, vacations, they tithe to themselves. If you had a million of them you could not operate a church on them. they are the same folks that are not faithful or float from place to place. Spiritual gipsies and hitchhickers letting someone else pay the gas.There would be no churches, camps, missions, evangelists. pastors if you was depending on them. They come when they want they are more faithful to their tv shows than they are to God. Then when they show up they want you to announce 'we are soooooooooooooooo blessed with their presence.'
So folks it ain't one sided. I will repent for all the money loving preachers who thnk they own the church and the saints if someone will apologize for all the money loving saints who wander from pillar to post with their hand out mooching spiritual things because they don't have a cent invested in it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

1 Corinthians 9:9
For it is written in the Law of Moses: "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain." Is it about oxen that God is concerned?


Then we have this in Proverbs 12:10 "Good people are kind to their animals, but a mean person is cruel."

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

I am mistaken here, EB is right. The oldest shekel coin known to exist is about twenty seven hundred years old. The shekel was used long before that (about another seventeen hundred years) as money but was a certain weight of silver, gold etc.. I would like for EB and 1ofthechosen to define money according to their understanding of the word, as used thirty two times in the book of Genesis. I believe the definition of money, as used in the Bible (my version is KJV) is important but not necessarily crucial to the debate on tithes.

EB?

!ofthechosen?

Would you be so kind as to define money as used in the Bible, according to your understanding?

David and Goliath was written in the 6th century B.C. look at 1 Samuel 17:4-5 "And there went out a champion out of the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath, of Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span. [5] And he had an helmet of brass upon his head, and he was armed with a coat of mail; and the weight of the coat was five thousand shekels of brass."

So I think this shows it couldn't be money, but it was a weight system for precious metals, and things of that nature. A barter system a going rate in weight.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Well, I heard it.

I'd say that's a fair response.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

was looking through old threads on tithes and found this

[Amanah]

found this also, just looking at the other side of the story

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

1. I do believe the tithe is for support of the ministry. The pastor is to live OUT of the tithe. He is to be in control of the tithe. That does not mean he keeps all the tithe. In my ministry knowing hundreds of pastors I have never met one who took all the tithe for himself. I surely never have but it is under my control.
2. I would have no objection in telling anyone what salary I placed myself on. Only a couple of times in my entire ministry has anyone asked me and I told them. But you know I never ask any saint in the church what their salary is? I would not tell a non-tither it is none of their business.
3. I have told folks who paid tithes on their gross they would have to use their own judgment on their pensions and SS. I have given tithes back hundreds of time to elderly saints or bought them groceries with it or fill their tanks up with gas. Or anomously sent their money back through other people.
I am not totting my horn because I do not believe I am any different than most pastors I have known. There has never been a saint I have pastored that has matched me on giving to the needy or giving to the church NOT ONE. I do not regret the groceries I have bought, school books I have paid, cars I have fixed, rents I have paid, loans I have made and refusing the payback, clothes I have bought, tires, washers, dryers, refrigirators, stoves, air conditioners, fuel oil, gas & electric bills, and the list is endless. Many times some saint told me about the need of a another saint(most of which never pulled the billfold and gave ONE dollar toward the need).
During those rough peanut brittle years my wife made the most of it with kids and my family sold it including myself. Who sat at bake sales and made most of the goods? My wife. Who cooked dinners for most of our guests? My wife. Who made sure the church was clean when the saint 'forgot?' My wife.
Now God has blessed us with much more than we deserve and you think I am going to allow tightwads and preacher haters to maek me feel bad because I don't have to buy day old bread and can buy a new pair of shoes and not buy used tires? Forget it. I have been abundantly blessed and now I have more to bless others.