Psychotropic Drugs in Religious Rituals

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Do you forget why I did that? You mocked veterans with PTSD. I figured if you mocked vets, and made light of their PTSD, your circumstance deserved to be mocked also. Of course, I explained this already, and let it go. But you're still obsessing over it.

You need to get saved, you are done here. I mocked no vets especially that my own father had issues from WWII. So, save it, you got problems hope you find a church. Instead of making excuses why you can't attend. I don't need to know your middle initial I got your number. Get to church, get the Holy Ghost.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You need to get saved, you are done here. I mocked no vets especially that my own father had issues from WWII. So, save it, you got problems hope you find a church. Instead of making excuses why you can't attend. I don't need to know your middle initial I got your number. Get to church, get the Holy Ghost.

EB, you spent a great deal of time denying that PTSD existed, and insinuated that seeking professional help was foolish and ignorant. That mocks the very real issue of PTSD experienced by vets and trauma survivors. Don't you remember the thread, Psychiatry An Industry Of Death?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

But you're still obsessing over it.

No, just pointing it out that you are a mess, and no matter what your reasons you can mock child torture.

If you committed suicide?

Don't take your time looking for a church, run like your head was on fire.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

run like your head was on fire.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

No, just pointing it out that you are a mess, and no matter what your reasons you can mock child torture.

If you committed suicide?

Don't take your time looking for a church, run like your head was on fire.

I mocked your pain only because you made a mockery of the pain of others. In post #151 (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=151), you stated that none of that effects you anyway. You state that you forgave, forgot, and moved on in peace. Yet it keeps surfacing in your consciousness now that someone else mocked your pain, and it now becomes a part of your every conversation with me. The truth is, you can push everyone else's buttons, mock their pain, and malign their character... even mock their searching for medical help as they wait on God's healing touch... but if someone pushes your button regarding your pain... you can't let it go.

Post #160 expresses what I and others have seen quite well (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=160). I'm not saying this to attack you. I'm saying this only in the hopes that you might look in the mirror and consider that perhaps you do tend to be merciless, hard, and vindictive at times.

[houston]

Ban him.

[Amanah]

Aquila I have a question for you. You have been having this same conversation in one form or another for over a year. Why do you keep going there? Surely you don't expect for someone who lives by faith and believes God for healing, and preaches this to back up and suddenly say, "ok Chris, you are right, smoke some weed"

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Aquila I have a question for you. You have been having this same conversation in one form or another for over a year. Why do you keep going there? Surely you don't expect for someone who lives by faith and believes God for healing, and preaches this to back up and suddenly say, "ok Chris, you are right, smoke some weed"

You're right. I don't expect that, nor is that what I want. That is a distortion of what I'm trying to say. And that distortion continues, and so, my efforts to clarify continue.

I believe in supernatural healing. And I believe that we should seek supernatural healing. However, healing comes in many ways. Sometimes a supernatural healing is instantaneous. Sometimes it is partial with the complete healing to follow. Sometimes healing is delayed for a season, and we wait expectantly. And, as we all know, sometimes supernatural healing isn't given. The reasons and theories as to why healing manifests in these ways is often a mystery. Sometimes there is lack of faith, sometimes an instantaneous healing isn't a part of God's plan.

But what do we do if we find ourselves waiting for a supernatural healing?

There are different opinions.

Some will say that we shouldn't take any medication whatsoever and that to do so only indicates doubt. And, while it can indicate doubt, that isn't always the case. Sometimes symptoms can effect a person who has faith in healing enough that the person needs to have relief from those symptoms until the healing takes place.

I'm of the belief that there is nothing wrong with taking medication to treat undesirable symptoms if you find yourself waiting on God's healing power.

That brings us to the topic of medication. What medications should we take?

I don't see the Bible drawing any distinction between forms of medicine. In Scripture we see that the people of ancient Israel used healing balms, herbs, and ointments. Wine (an intoxicant) was used to cleanse wounds, to help people sleep, or to relieve pain, anxiety, and to help sedate the dying. In ancient times, all forms of medicine were natural remedies. Even the healing power and grace of God is symbolized as the, Balm of Gilead. In the NT we see people who had various conditions who had sought help from physicians, and all treatment was to no avail. They are never condemned for seeking a physician's treatment. But it is emphasized that in many cases, the physicians didn't have the power to cure the problem. It is in these circumstances that we see the healing power of Jesus. And so, we see Jesus referred to as the Great Physician. I want to emphasize that while it is noted that physicians cannot always cure every condition, no where do we see physicians or the seeking of a physician's aid, or medicine condemned.

But what if a medication is intoxicating or as psychoactive elements? Many medication effects the brain in one way or another, even alcohol. Paul advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake and his oft infirmities.

Think about that for a moment... Paul told Timothy to drink some wine. I'm sure someone could judge Paul and say,

"Oh, so that's Paul's solution? 'Here Timothy, have a bottle of California Red, and drink up!' Paul's just a carnal drunk! He needs the Holy Ghost.'"

But that wouldn't be fair, would it? Of course not. Paul wasn't advising that Timothy take a little wine for his ailments so that Timothy could party and get wasted. Paul only advised that Timothy take a little wine (indicating moderation) for his oft infirmities (as needed). Certainly someone could press the issue and make Paul look irresponsible, faithless towards Timothy's healing, and argue that by advising that Timothy drink wine, he was putting Timothy at risk to be a drunk and miss out on God. But those concerns are purely speculative and based on fear. We know that wine can aid in digestion, is rich in antioxidants, and can lower cholesterol...if consumed responsibly in moderation. Yes, wine, an intoxicant, has medicinal benefits. Medicinal benefits that were unexplainable, but understood in ancient times. Paul had no problem advising that Timothy take an intoxicant in moderation to relieve his infirmities.

Why then should we fear the idea of people taking any medication shown to relieve unpleasant symptoms of any condition we might have?

The truth is, we shouldn't have any fear in the matter. Of course, medical science isn't a miracle working solution. Some things will work for some people and not for others. Some medications will be found to be undesirable by many people, even if they are shown to have some benefit. Others might swear by those very same medications. This is why there isn't a one size fits all answer. For example, I dislike taking Delsym cough syrup, especially if I know I'll have to go to work the next morning. It makes me feel buzzed and makes my thoughts foggy. It's an unpleasant feeling. But my family seems to swear by it. And I admit that it works. I just don't like it. So, I believe taking any kind of medication is a matter of personal conviction.

Which brings us to the question... "What about more controversial medications?"

Well, as I said above, I believe that's a matter of personal conviction. Right now, the medicinal value of cannabis in relation to how it helps relieve the symptoms of various conditions is a hot topic with more and more states legalizing it for medicinal and even recreational use. Many people have tried it and don't like it. Others have tried it and felt relief from terrible symptoms they've endured for years. Take into consideration, it has only been illegal since the 1960's. For the majority of human history, it was relatively common and consumed anywhere one might find hemp being grown for textiles, oils, etc. The politics behind how it became illegal, the falsified studies, and the big corporate interests that pushed for its prohibition is fascinating history, even if one has no interest in taking it personally. All these factors have aided in creating a stigma about the plant that isn't entirely reflective of reality. And in our day of advanced synthetically engineered medications that have terrible side effects...anything all natural that doesn't have the same terrible side effects is preferred by many. I had read an article about a woman named Heather who had multiple seizures every day. She tried various medications and they either didn't work, or left her feeling terrible along with a number of undesirable side effects. At the end of her rope, she tried cannabis... and she stopped having seizures. She's been seizure free for year snow. Since, she has become an advocate for legalization and holistic health. I think she's a bit flaky in her style and manners, but her information and personal experience is rather informative. Her story mirrors those of many parents who had exhausted all resources to treat their kids symptoms and seizures. Then there are individuals with PTSD and anxiety disorders who have also seen symptoms of their conditions become manageable or eliminated altogether after using cannabis medicinally in its various forms. Not to mention, over 60 peer reviewed studies on it indicating numerous medicinal benefits ranging from pain management, to seizures, to Parkinson's disease, to anxiety disorders, to the management of symptoms relating to cancer treatment.

As new information is gained, positions in the medical community and culture change. Times change. We need not be locked into paradigms set by the world. We must be flexible as it relates to things in the natural plane.

The natural plane... that leads me to this thought. Who created cannabis and all these things? Jesus did. And when He created all these things, He said that it was good. It is man who says that these things are bad. And by calling the creation good, God is indicating that His creation is for man's benefit and the working of His will. We thank Him for the harvest of His bounty in all things. Why do we not thank Him for natural medicines and remedies?

So, as you probably have concluded, I believe that God heals. It might be through miraculous healing, it might be through guiding the hands and minds of doctors and surgeons. He might heal or relieve suffering through the medicinal qualities of the things that He has made. Are there dangers? Certainly. Anything can be abused, including food, sex, alcohol, etc. But benefiting from the work of His hands through principled use is no sin. I don't believe in putting God in a box and expecting everything He does to be "supernatural". I find the things God does through natural means just as miraculous as those things He does through supernatural means. To Him belongs all glory, honor, and power.

So, regardless as to if healing or relief come through a divine touch, a doctor's hands, or a medicine... God is to be praised.

The idea that medications are sin is dangerous, in my opinion. Should one believe such a teaching, they might cease taking medications they desperately need and the results can be tragic. I strongly admonish a balanced and principled approach that takes all known factors into consideration. If God desires to heal someone of a condition supernaturally, there isn't a single medication available that can stop Him. In fact, there are many reports wherein medication that has been taken for years suddenly made one sick because they were healed. God's hands are not tied by anything.

I pray I have answered your question.

I want to thank you for being concerned for my welfare, and for inquiring about my motives without accusation. The kindness, concern, and gentleness of your spirit is beautifully refreshing.

I pray that I have adequately explained my understanding, my motives, and my intentions so as to leave no doubt that I'm not advocating the abuse of any substance or drunkenness.

I can only hope that you can see how my detractors have distorted what I'm saying and maligned my character time and time again, causing me to strive to clarify myself, time and time again.

Thank you for your kindness, your time, and your consideration.

May God richly bless you and yours.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Hate to break this to anyone, but the amount of wine Paul told Timothy to drink would be a spoonful. Mixed in his water which he was drinking. Paul is telling Timothy the young evangelist to not only drink water exclusively but wine with it. Is Aquila recommending CBD? That isn't what we are discussing he and I. His quote is about the LIFE CHANGING effects of Marijuana. This is all a game to Chris, and if you go back to the beginning, and also the other thread which was locked (which Chris offered) you will find his motive. He starts out in one vein, and posts freely. He actually let's you know early his agenda. That is plain. He is now pray for the doctors hand to be guided, pray for the chemo to work, Jesus works through medicine. That wasn't what we were arguing about.

Legalized marijuana, not cold medicine, not insulin, not surgery, and not gummy bear CBD.

But psychotropic plants, and fungi used in ancient religious ceremonies now being pushed on the weak and troubled. Who desperately need Jesus Christ, and not to replace Jesus Christ wonder working Spirit with pot.

I will leave you with this which Chris so honestly and openly admitted.

He is backpedaling now, but this is how he was pushing for those who suffer to come to a brighter day.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, imagine smoking legally prescribed cannabis and while a high is produced that lasts four or so hours, for the next 4 days, you feel sound and balanced. No nervous shaking, cold sweats, anxiety attacks, violent impulses, nightmares, racing thoughts, intrusive memories, or thoughts of suicide. In fact, compared to how your mind felt prior to smoking, you feel clear as a bell. Calm as rock. For four days. On day five, you detect an instance of racing thoughts, but it fades quickly. Day 6, the racing thoughts begin to come back, subtle anxiety is setting in again. Your mind feels clouded as it did prior to smoking. Nightmares might return at this time. And so, you now know your threshold... four days. So you smoke a little cannabis every four days before bed... for six months... and during that period... everyone who knows you wants to know what happened because now your actually talking to them and interacting normally. Your kids say, "Mom and dad don't fight like they used to.", "I'm not afraid of dad anymore.", "Dad doesn't scream and break things like before.", and your performance at work increases. Your love life returns to normal... it's like you get your entire life back.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Hate to break this to anyone, but the amount of wine Paul told Timothy to drink would be a spoonful. Mixed in his water which he was drinking. Paul is telling Timothy the young evangelist to not only drink water exclusively but wine with it.

Exactly, moderation and as need.

Is Aquila recommending CBD? That isn't what we are discussing he and I. His quote is about the LIFE CHANGING effects of Marijuana.

I have mentioned the value of CBDs. I don't believe we're debating about these seeing that they are not psychoactive properties.

What is being debated is the use of medical cannabis that has THC content. Some studies indicate that for some anxiety disorders, the THC content can be beneficial. And if they are right, the side effect of a 4 to 6 hour "high" is nothing compared to the side effects of many prescription medications. So, if taken responsibly, I'd have no concerns.

My quote was a hypothetical. And if you watched the videos I posted with children suffering from as many as 16 seizures a day who have benefitted from medical cannabis, you'd agree... for these families, it was life changing.

This is all a game to Chris, and if you go back to the beginning, and also the other thread which was locked (which Chris offered) you will find his motive. He starts out in one vein, and posts freely. He actually let's you know early his agenda. That is plain. He is now pray for the doctors hand to be guided, pray for the chemo to work, Jesus works through medicine. That wasn't what we were arguing about.

Our "arguments" often go all over the map. Do you really think that I'm on an Apostolic forum, after being Apostolic for 29+ years, advocating toking it up every night, just for fun? Also, you called me a "troll". I think I have far too many posts on the forum, with too many years of membership, to be called a "troll". But, I admit, I don't always agree with the majority. But sometimes some dissention is good so we don't become a mutual admiration society.

Legalized marijuana, not cold medicine, not insulin, not surgery, and not gummy bear CBD.

Cannabis has only been illegal since the 1960's. Prior to that it was quite common in medications in the United States and abroad. You act like it is a dark shadowy specter of an idea that bucks against thousands of years of tradition. All legalization would do is return laws back to the way they were in the late 1800's and early 1900's, and end the un-Constitutional drug war being waged over a plant.

But psychotropic plants, and fungi used in ancient religious ceremonies now being pushed on the weak and troubled. Who desperately need Jesus Christ, and not to replace Jesus Christ wonder working Spirit with pot.

Nobody advocated that.

I will leave you with this which Chris so honestly and openly admitted.

My statement was only a hypothetical expressing the experience of many who have taken cannabis for the symptoms of PTSD.

He is backpedaling now, but this is how he was pushing for those who suffer to come to a brighter day.

I am not back peddling. What's happening is that you're now realizing that you've been blowing everything I'm saying WAAAAYYYY out of proportion.

Have you ever been told by a medical professional that you might need any form of medication?

Please share and tell us how you've managed it so far.