Apostolic 101

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Two common errors believers make:

He that believeth AND IS SAVED shall be baptized

This is not an error if we consider ALL of Jesus' sayings.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already

A believer is NOT CONDEMNED (in other words, he is saved when he puts his faith in Jesus Christ)

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life
This scripture is saying exactly what you consider ERROR...

And here's another one:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Please notice that Jesus said A person is PASSED unto life upon belief.

Jesus said ALL of this including Mk 16:16. These statements are not contradictory, but you're making sound like they are.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Repent FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ....

Actually, Peter did say what you're calling error.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Oh, I believe that the convert should call upon the name of the Lord. In fact, I believe everyone present should be calling upon the name of the Lord, in prayer that their sins be remitted.

Do you deny that the convert should call upon the name of the Lord?

Here's the deal... a person could be calling upon the name of Jesus and have 10,000 Trinitarian ministers screaming the Trinitarian formula and God will honor the baptism. Or, a man can be just going through the motions and not be calling upon the name of the Lord with 10,000 Apostolic preachers screaming a Oneness formula... and God will NOT honor that baptism.

Do you disagree???

Amen.

The "calling on Jesus" is a natural, public outflow of a redeemed heart. Others can and should join, but there is not a third party who drops some sort of magic Jesus name sceptre.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Do they get a snorkel?

Would they need one?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

The gates of hell has never prevailed against the Church. Since the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 there has always been a One God, baptized in Jesus name tongue talking group of believers.

I always found this argument not thoroughly thought out. Of course the gates of Hell didn't prevail... revival and reformation have taken place, and God is still marching forward with understandings that have been misunderstood for centuries. If you're under the illusion that Jesus meant that Hell would NEVER wage war, infiltrate the church, and attempt to steer the church from powerful truths... you're gravely mistaken. We've seen Apostolic Acts 2:38 churches be influenced from their foundations and a revival set the church on fire and back on the straight and narrow before.

Look at Israel. She sunk into apostasy and idolatry throughout her history... God didn't cast her away... He sent prophets to reform her. Same thing with the church. Else we would never need a revival, a prophet to correct us, or corporate repentance. To believe in restorationism is to walk in the prophetic... to hear the voice of God speak to you about His church... and give you a word for the entire generation at large. It's a message that is directed to all who name Jesus as their Saviour, even those lacking proper theological understanding. It's a message that can, and does, resonate in the hearts of all who name the name of Jesus. I am an Apostolic... but far more important than that... I'm a Christian. I've rocked Baptist Bible studies and house church meetings before with a message from God that was un-mistakable. Reform! Reform! Reform! Jesus! Jesus! Jesus! It's all about Jesus! ... not WHO we are. NOT our pathetic standards or traditions. It's about being conformed into the very image of Jesus. Some folks are so "Apostolic", one day they will stand before Jesus and He'll tell them, "You're a wonderful Apostolic!" They will feel so excited... until Jesus says, "But... I'm not 'apostolic'. I called you to be conformed into MY image, not the image of some 20th century denomination. Now, depart from me, ye workers of iniquity... I never knew you."

BE LIKE JESUS. That's what it's about. I REFUSE to be identified by anything outside of Christ Jesus.

The Reformation hasn't ended...even the UPCI needs it.

Saying, "There hasn't been a "restoration", or the gates of Hell prevailed.", is like saying that a church couldn't ever need revival because if it did the gates of Hell somehow prevailed. That's a bit silly in my opinion. Hell only prevails if we fail to get a church back on track. THIS IS A WAR.

Tim, I know you believe that there has always been a church just like our modern UPCI type Apostolic church. A close and HONEST review of history, primarily the writings of each group claimed to be "Apostolic" will reveal that they'd be rejected out of hand by modern Apostolics. Very few believed in modalism, Jesus name baptism, and tongues all at the same time. Some believed NOTHING like what was claimed. I read that the Cathars were early Apostolics... until I began to study their own writings.

You can believe that there has always been some kind of UPCI type church on earth if you like... I'm a proud restorationist. WE ARE THE REVIVAL the church has desperately needed and has been prayed for by many devout Christians down through history. And the church is still in need of Reform... from it's near worship and adoration of steeples over peoples... all the way down to the little Catholic wafers and thimble of grape juice partaken of in the "Catholic Mass" most Protestants call "Communion".

The sad thing is... Satan has taken the great revival God sent to the 20th century church and her against the very church she was sent to revive!

This religious BITTERNESS and HATRED that goes back almost two generations over rejection and being branded heretics needs to be repented of. Because it runs sooooo deep. We're making up history like our lies somehow change the truth.

NOW... that's a message for today!

He who has an ear... let him hear!

[Tim Rutledge]

On a side personal note.. All I have is an iPhone, I don't even have Internet at home. So it's hard for me to type and respond much. Not that I'd do much better otherwise.

I said it before.. We must all be fully persuade in our own minds.. For that is what God will ultimately judged. Along of course with how we responded to our beliefs. I want to be right with God as I'm sure most all of us do.

I just am not into dissecting and defining and redefining a bunch of words.. Like the word Prevail. If that's how you need to work out your own salvation.. Then have at it. I'm trying to just do and live what I know is right. Golden rule type stuff. No hard feelings here.. I just don't have time to debate much on this forum. God bless.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

If this gospel is hid, it is hid to them which are lost. Anyone (adult) not baptized in Jesus name has not been born again of the water. Which is essential. John 3:3,5.

In your mind, what is the age of accountability? When does one become an adult?

[Aquila]

Even God Himself testifies against the notion that He has written off all other churches. Consider this reality... God is pouring out His own Spirit in nearly every denomination of Christianity. Even today 36% of Catholics have experienced the "charismatic blessing" (baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues). You see, while they are still bound with much tradition and errant theological notions... God is moving. I've seen entire Baptist churches swept away in the Holy Ghost with masses speaking in other tongues. Even a local Episcopal church pastored by a skeptical female bishop has opened up "Spirit Filled" services for Episcopls who have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

The Spirit of God testifies against the notion that only the UPCI or ALJC have a monopoly on Salvation. The Kingdom of God is so much greater than our denominational traditions, standards, and methods:

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It's not a matter of what you and I THINK. What matters is what God is ACTUALLY DOING. LOL

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Even God Himself testifies against the notion that He has written off all other churches. Consider this reality... God is pouring out His own Spirit in nearly every denomination of Christianity. Even today 36% of Catholics have experienced the "charismatic blessing" (baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues). You see, while they are still bound with much tradition and errant theological notions... God is moving. I've seen entire Baptist churches swept away in the Holy Ghost with masses speaking in other tongues. Even a local Episcopal church pastored by a skeptical female bishop has opened up "Spirit Filled" services for Episcopls who have received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

The Spirit of God testifies against the notion that only the UPCI or ALJC have a monopoly on Salvation. The Kingdom of God is so much greater than our denominational traditions, standards, and methods:

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

It's not a matter of what you and I THINK. What matters is what God is ACTUALLY DOING. LOL

thats good stuff right there.........

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

On a side personal note.. All I have is an iPhone, I don't even have Internet at home. So it's hard for me to type and respond much. Not that I'd do much better otherwise.

I said it before.. We must all be fully persuade in our own minds.. For that is what God will ultimately judged. Along of course with how we responded to our beliefs. I want to be right with God as I'm sure most all of us do.

I just am not into dissecting and defining and redefining a bunch of words.. Like the word Prevail. If that's how you need to work out your own salvation.. Then have at it. I'm trying to just do and live what I know is right. Golden rule type stuff. No hard feelings here.. I just don't have time to debate much on this forum. God bless.

Brother... the Apostles did baptize in Jesus name. Converts also called on that name at baptism. That is the truest expression of Apostolic faith with regards to baptism. However, they didn't deal with a church that drifted as the Reformers and early Apostolics did. God knows the hearts of those seeking Him and who are willing to be water baptized in the only way available. God knows to what depth they received the Holy Ghost as they lay on the floor weeping unintelligibly in spiritual ecstasy. We do violence to God's sovereignty by saying that we alone have a monopoly on salvation. God alone knows who are His. And His Spirit will bear witness of His own. There are UPCI churches who are VERY close to the biblical model of the church... then there are UPCI churches that are not... there are Baptist and Nazarene churches that are closer... and Luthern and Episcopal that are not. This is a journey, and we should strive for purity in doctrine and a faith that is modeled after the Apostles... and some churches are closer than others. God can work out our theological disputes and traditions. What matters is being baptized in His Spirit, being united with Him through the Holy Ghost.

That doesn't preclude the idea (which I hold to be truth) that when the Rapture does take place only a bride without spot or wrinkle will be caught away. We are racing against a clock to purify the church. To instruct other believers. To encourage people to receive the Holy Ghost regardless of their religious background. We aren't called to win souls to an organization. We are called to simply win souls for Jesus.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by acerrak

thats good stuff right there.........

Thank you my brother! To God be the glory!