McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by n david

Why don't you answer my question? You've accused Matthew Davies of being a "criminal."

Was he arrested?

Was he charged with any crime?

Yes or no?

Why do you continue to ignore the question? It's pretty simple, Pilgrim.

If he has been arrested and charged with a crime, post the proof.

If not, you should say so.

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices


Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person. As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me. How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light? Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end. Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for. I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these 2 crooks (by definition) I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices


Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person. As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me. How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light? Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end. Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for. I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these 2 crooks (by definition) I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

Looks like a tooth has been drilled way too deep once again, on Apostolic Offended Forum.

Hey, every man's own burden is the heaviest, and we all have or cuts and bruises from life whether in our out of the church. But n david is just giving a sensible view on all of this, and the facts are as my buddy Esaias posted, no one has a dog in this fight. So, in other words we don't have both sides posting here in order to know what exactly went on. Yet, it seems that on this forum we sure have quite a few individuals who have contemplated much on the tree of woe. But forgiveness is so much easier then carrying around the burden of wanting to incinerate those who have offended you. Let's keep in mind that unless we forgive we have no salvation, and since you admonish others to look at the Bible closer maybe you should again look at the part which says we aren't to take each other to court of the world but handle this among the church? Anyway, we are admonished to forgive the same way we want to be forgiven by God. Jesus has forgiven us our debts, so we better be wise enough to forgive others their debts against us.

Kapeesh?

[n david]

Paragraphs are your friend.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

To the apologist here is the definition of crook.

noun
: a dishonest person
: a criminal
: the place where part of the body (such as an arm, leg, or finger) bends
4 :a person who engages in fraudulent or criminal practices

Wow. I wish I were like you and never, not once, been dishonest, driven faster than the speed limit or broken any other traffic or other law. You are awesome!

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Remember you don't have to be caught or charged to be a dishonest or fraudulent person.

If that's how you want to excuse your slander. It's funny. You and pilgrim are angry at these Pastors for their alleged slander, yet you guys call them criminals when they've never been arrested or charged with a crime. They were given a civil penalty and you act like they murdered someone.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

As for me and my "forgiveness", I am sure glad Jesus is a better more loving person than me.

You and me both!

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

How easy it must be for you as a higher, almost angelic person to tell others how and when they must forgive. I bet you forgive at the drop of a hat. After all you most likly walked in everyone's shoes so you know how it feels to put 31, 19, and 16 years in a church. Giving of time to the ministry, teaching people salvation, praying with souls that cry out for freedom, giving of finances to just be tossed out like trash, tarnished, and told not to talk to the people you've loved for all those years. Why? Because you brought sin and crooked behavior to light?

You don't know my testimony, and I'm not going to share it on here. I was Jim Goings, only I didn't do what many around me wanted me to do and file a lawsuit. I'm glad I didn't. God settled the issue better than a lawsuit would have. I don't believe myself to be better than anyone, but yes, I've been there. I'm not trying to tell you to do something I haven't done myself. I'm still picking up pieces from what happened long ago.

You can choose to be bitter and angry, vindictive and seeking for vengence. Or you can choose to forgive. The first choice is the easy one. The second choice has a reward with it.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Oh and it was 2 pastors. I see now. It is easy to just pick up the shattered shards of my heart, Jim's and his wife's hearts and say no big deal we forgive. Mind blowing really that I think about it. What was I thinking? Ok I forgive them completely. That still does not absolve them for what they might have to do in the end.

Whatever "they might have to do in the end" shouldn't matter to you or the Goings. THEY (the Pastors), not you, will have to stand before God and account for every word spoken and every action done.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Read your Bible a little closer. God uses men to bring forth his judgments in most cases. Throughout the Bible we see story after story how God judges with the sword or the stone. So don't sit there as an apologist for an action that was dishonest and fraudulent in nature. casting judgment on a situation you know nothing about but defend and apologize for.

"By definition" we're both apologists. So you believe you and Goings are God's instruments of judgement on these Pastors? BTW, I don't defend what they did. In case you missed it, I've said they were wrong for their actions. I'm not so much defending them as I'm trying to help you.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I find it sad you can sue a catholic, baptist, even an Assembly of God saint because they in your eyes don't believe in God. Since he brought suit after he was disfellowshipped then I see no contradiction. If you where to ask these [two Pastors] I bet they would say he is not a brother. So they got the suit coming to them from just a poor ol' worldly sinner now, so scripture should not apply to them. Enjoy your juice. Jesus would have flipped over the tables a whipped them. Now that is scripture I would have liked to see. And Jesus forgave them as well. But when? Before the beatings or after. You sir, being so forgiving can make that call. I'll be waiting.

I remember reading of Jesus cleansing the temple, but I must have missed the part where He beat them. I don't doubt you would love to see these men being beaten.

Look, it's obvious you're trying to find any excuse you can to continue your pursuit of vengence against these men. I'm done trying to dissuade you from it. Enjoy your quest for vengence.

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by n david

Why don't you answer my question?

Was he arrested?

Was he charged with any crime?

Yes or no?

Why do you continue to ignore the question? It's pretty simple, Pilgrim.

If he has been arrested and charged with a crime, post the proof.

If not, you should say so.

First, I see your point and in this case the paper does not report that he was arrested. The term I probably should have used is "an unlawful person". Is that better?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pilgram199

First, I see your point and in this case the paper does not report that he was arrested. The term I probably should have used is "an unlawful person". Is that better?

If you choose to use the term. Of course, if we're honest, we're ALL unlawful at some time or another in life.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by n david

I've thought about it a little more, and I'm with Holy Ghost HH and Pilgrim now. I think these Pastor's should be tarred and feathered. They should be forced to stand in the McMinnville town square with tar and feathers and admit publicly that they are "criminals" and have "willful sin" in their lives.

Then, they should be put in stocks, while every church member comes by with a pie and throws it in their face. Townspeople should throw rotten vegetables at them.

A picture should be taken of this and put in a full-page ad, with a caption from the Pastor's "We are 'criminals.'"

They should be voted out as Pastor's, be forced to close their business and sell their homes. A cardboard box in the alley behind main street would be too good for them!

Not enough blood for you? Maybe they should be caned, whipped and beated with rods!

Yes! Give us blood! Forgiveness is so early church. We want vengence!

*snarl* *gnash*

Meanwhile...

"Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy."

"Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God."

"Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"

"forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

"For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

"Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again."

"Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not."

"Recompense to no man evil for evil."

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."

"Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."

No sir, that is not what needs to happen. Even tho that is what they did to Jim Goings. Minus the tar and feathers they made a mockery of him and the church. Non of this would even be on this forum if the where not crooks in my opinion. So everyone should forgive except them? I think they should let Jim back in the church just like Jesus would. Do you agree? Or do pastors that run independent get to be the judge and jury unlike what is biblical? They got found out and threw forgiveness out the window now everyone needs to forgive them? Just talked to Jim the other day and he has forgiven. When your child steals from you and apologizes you forgive right? But he will still get his punishment no? Exactly.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

No sir, that is not what needs to happen. Even tho that is what they did to Jim Goings. Minus the tar and feathers they made a mockery of him and the church. Non of this would even be on this forum if the were not crooks in my opinion.

They're crooks? Have you ever been given a traffic ticket? Have you ever driven faster than the posted speed? Have you ever, even once, been the slightest bit dishonest or misleading?

Such were some of you (myself included).

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

So everyone should forgive except them?

I don't know why this is so hard for you and Pilgrim to understand or grasp. What THEY do or say doesn't affect where or how you will spend eternity; it's what YOU do which will. It doesn't matter if these men have repented, asked or given forgiveness. It only matters that YOU do.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I think they should let Jim back in the church just like Jesus would. Do you agree?

Again, doesn't matter what they do or don't do. I think you should forgive and stop seeking vengence just like Jesus said to do.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Or do pastors that run independent get to be the judge and jury unlike what is biblical? They got found out and threw forgiveness out the window now everyone needs to forgive them?

To the part in bold: Yes! A hundred times, YES!

And why? Because if you don't forgive, you will not be forgiven. It matters not what they do or say. Your words and actions, not theirs, are what will matter in eternity.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Just talked to Jim the other day and he has forgiven.

Awesome! He should show his forgiveness by dropping his lawsuit. You can't claim to forgive someone while still seeking personal vengence against them. Why haven't you forgiven them?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

When your child steals from you and apologizes you forgive right? But he will still get his punishment no? Exactly.

Are you God? Is Jim God? Since when did you become the judge or executioner of divine punishment? You're like Jonah, waiting for the destruction of Nineveh, and if it doesn't happen, you get upset. To you, the Pastors did wrong, so they deserve punishment. You want them to be arrested and charged with a crime. You would like to see them resign from being Pastors.

Meanwhile, Mercy says "Hello."

You're sitting with popcorn, waiting for "fire and brimstone" to burn them alive while standing behind the pulpit.

But Mercy says, "They did wrong, it's true. And while I am able to destroy them as you wish, I choose instead to forgive them."

[Pilgram199]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

I think they should let Jim back in the church just like Jesus would. Do you agree? Or do pastors that run independent get to be the judge and jury unlike what is biblical? They got found out and threw forgiveness out the window now everyone needs to forgive them? Just talked to Jim the other day and he has forgiven. When your child steals from you and apologizes you forgive right? But he will still get his punishment no? Exactly.

IMO, a public apology should be given to Jim. He should be thankful to get out of that place though. I know others who want to leave but can not due to family ties and associations.

[Pilgram199]

Also, could you ever really trust the pastor again?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Pilgram199

Also, could you ever really trust the pastor again?

No.