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| The D.A.'s Office The views expressed in this forum are those of the author and do not necessarily represent the views of AFF or the Admin of AFF. |
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View Poll Results: Are sins forgiven at repentance or baptism?
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Repentance
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59 |
81.94% |
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Baptism
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12 |
16.67% |
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Unsure
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1 |
1.39% |
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09-05-2008, 10:01 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
In this verse, the words are different both in the English AND the Greek. Is there a difference or not?
There are numerous verses that talk about John preaching the "baptism of repentance"...are baptism and repentance/remission one single work?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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09-05-2008, 10:03 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
It seems to me that the obvious reconciliation of these scriptures IS that repentance, baptism and remission are intertwined. I think there is a misnomer here...and that is that "repentance", as we understand it, is even a step of salvation. "Repent[ance]" as it stands in Acts 2:38 or Luke 24:47 would be more akin to feeling conviction.
The fact that we have divided salvation up into steps is ridiculous to begin with.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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09-06-2008, 12:54 PM
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Crazy father of 4
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Now? Phoenix, AZ. Before? Newark, OH, Wyandotte, MI, Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,926
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
It seems to me that the obvious reconciliation of these scriptures IS that repentance, baptism and remission are intertwined. I think there is a misnomer here...and that is that "repentance", as we understand it, is even a step of salvation. "Repent[ance]" as it stands in Acts 2:38 or Luke 24:47 would be more akin to feeling conviction.
The fact that we have divided salvation up into steps is ridiculous to begin with.
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AMEN
Go Bratgirl
=)
__________________
Life is .............
I'll get back to you when I figure it out.
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09-05-2008, 10:44 PM
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delete account
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,086
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
James 1:8; 4:8 A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. KJV
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09-05-2008, 10:45 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhoni
James 1:8; 4:8 A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways. KJV
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How does this verse relate to this thread? 
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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09-05-2008, 10:48 PM
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delete account
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 8,086
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
How does this verse relate to this thread? |
 Sorry - just on a roll... 
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09-05-2008, 11:02 PM
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Crazy father of 4
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Now? Phoenix, AZ. Before? Newark, OH, Wyandotte, MI, Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,926
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
I believe our sins are forgiven whenever God decides to forgive them. I think that actually has to do with the condition of the person's heart. Are they repentant or putting on a show. Are they ready to actually make a start with God or trying to get into someones good graces.
There are many who go 'repent' and do not mean it. There are many who go down in the watery grave a dry sinner and come up a wet one.
__________________
Life is .............
I'll get back to you when I figure it out.
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09-06-2008, 04:03 AM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
From another thread:
Sniff ... sniff ... sniff ...
FALSE DOCTRINE ALERT!!!!
You stand with the Roman church on that one, Mizzy ...
Not even Bernard or most of the 3 step crowd has gone that haywire.
Do you agree w/ Mizpeh in her new-fangled 3 step doctrine that our sins are not forgiven at repentance?
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Dan please don't turn this into another CARM. We can disagree and still treat each other with respect
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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09-06-2008, 09:25 AM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,829
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Daniel,
If, as you stated, both words are the same Greek word (for remission and forgiveness), then doesn't that demonstrate the importance of baptism for the work to be accomplished?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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09-06-2008, 10:07 AM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Re: New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissBrattified
Daniel,
If, as you stated, both words are the same Greek word (for remission and forgiveness), then doesn't that demonstrate the importance of baptism for the work to be accomplished?
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Herein lies the debate Ms. B.
The term aphesis directly linked to repentance in scripture many times ...
the only verse that some believe ties both repentance and baptism in CAUSING aphesis is Acts 2:38 ....
yet theologians on both sides debate the word "eis" ... or "for" to the cows come home .... some say it is a causal for ... others say its a resultant for ....
I will post my thoughts on the forgiveness is different from remission myth .... in a different thread as to give Mizpeh an opportunity to gather her thoughts and share her doctrinal support for her view on this thread ... and not get it tangled with a topic that is just as poignant.
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