thanks for the clarification.he could have said it either way, woulda been fine with me.
It's fine with you because you know PM, and know pretty well how he feels about doctrine and holiness.
Suppose TD Jakes said that God told him whatever. Would you have equal trust and be fine with it? Are you OK with a preacher who believes differently than you saying that God told him things that is in opposition to what you believe?
In other words, are you fine with it only as long as it is in harmony with your beliefs?
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It was said the reason he pulled his name was because he felt God told him to.
Others, including you, have openly questioned that reason and believe it to be something else ... hence PM is lying when he gave the reason.
You may not like the connection, but it is what it is ...
I agree with you generally, n_david.
It could be that the "check in his spirit" (PM's) that he felt was the Lord showing him what the cost of holding such a position would be for him. It may be that the "check" was something like, "you might get this - but here's the people who will be hurt and the many ways in which they will be hurt if you are elected." Or some other "cost."
I don't really see "God" as being directly involved in these things, necessarily; and I speak as someone who has held an elected position (three in fact) within the UPC.
"We" have the power to make such decisions with regard to our leadership. It's just like I can choose to involve myself in other activities, and the way that I can chose to esteem or withhold esteem from my brethren (and sisters too).
It could be that the "check in his spirit" (PM's) that he felt was the Lord showing him what the cost of holding such a position would be for him. It may be that the "check" was something like, "you might get this - but here's the people who will be hurt and the many ways in which they will be hurt if you are elected." Or some other "cost."
I don't really see "God" as being directly involved in these things, necessarily; and I speak as someone who has held an elected position (three in fact) within the UPC.
"We" have the power to make such decisions with regard to our leadership. It's just like I can choose to involve myself in other activities, and the way that I can chose to esteem or withhold esteem from my brethren (and sisters too).
Yeah..but. When you say 'in my spirit' you don't think it carries a connotation of divine intervention? It does to me...you may as well be saying "God said", same difference. If it's not God then be like Paul and say "Hey, I'm not sayin' this is God, it's probably me, but it seems best to me..."
We're splitting hairs.
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"Most human beings are not able to stand the message of the shaking of foundations. They reject and attack the prophetic minds, not because they really disagree with them, but because they sense the truth of their words and cannot receive it." Paul Tillich
Yeah..but. When you say 'in my spirit' you don't think it carries a connotation of divine intervention? It does to me...you may as well be saying "God said", same difference. If it's not God then be like Paul and say "Hey, I'm not sayin' this is God, it's probably me, but it seems best to me..."
We're splitting hairs.
Right, because who would be the one performing the "checking in the Spirit"? The answer is God.
Yeah..but. When you say 'in my spirit' you don't think it carries a connotation of divine intervention? It does to me...you may as well be saying "God said", same difference. If it's not God then be like Paul and say "Hey, I'm not sayin' this is God, it's probably me, but it seems best to me..."
We're splitting hairs.
I didn't quite intend to split that hair. I agree that what he said DID amount to a claim for divine revelation, at least of some sort of divine revelation.
My only point was that maybe it wasn't "God" telling him that he was NOT to be GS; but rather "God" telling him of the nature and the effect such an office would have on himself and those around him.
And then God sort of "steps back" and allows the humans to make their own decisions and choices. In this view we don't have a "God" operating a political machine like some sort of heavenly version of a Boss Tweed or Richard Daly.
Instead, we have a God who is the source of wisdom and insight and One Who helps "both sides" to see things with a bit of clarity and then leaves the personal choices up to the individuals He inspires.
If God did speak in such a way to folks and gave them this information, then I think we'd see a rather large number of candidates bowing out due to a similar "check in their spirit."
Location: just north of the celtics red sox and patriots go baby!
Posts: 730
Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway
It's fine with you because you know PM, and know pretty well how he feels about doctrine and holiness.
Suppose TD Jakes said that God told him whatever. Would you have equal trust and be fine with it? Are you OK with a preacher who believes differently than you saying that God told him things that is in opposition to what you believe?
In other words, are you fine with it only as long as it is in harmony with your beliefs?
I didn't quite intend to split that hair. I agree that what he said DID amount to a claim for divine revelation, at least of some sort of divine revelation.
My only point was that maybe it wasn't "God" telling him that he was NOT to be GS; but rather "God" telling him of the nature and the effect such an office would have on himself and those around him.
And then God sort of "steps back" and allows the humans to make their own decisions and choices. In this view we don't have a "God" operating a political machine like some sort of heavenly version of a Boss Tweed or Richard Daly.
Instead, we have a God who is the source of wisdom and insight and One Who helps "both sides" to see things with a bit of clarity and then leaves the personal choices up to the individuals He inspires.
If God did speak in such a way to folks and gave them this information, then I think we'd see a rather large number of candidates bowing out due to a similar "check in their spirit."
How come Jerry Jones didn't feel the same check in his spirit? Did God want for there to be a runoff election? Was JJ not sensitive enough to the voice of God?
If another leader like Bro. Haney was still in the running, would God have changed PM's mind? If it looked like a preacher who was tolerant of the extremes looked like he would win, would PM have let his name run?
Lot's of questions! Don't you LOVE religious politics?
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Last edited by StillStanding; 10-09-2009 at 08:51 PM.
Location: just north of the celtics red sox and patriots go baby!
Posts: 730
Re: Post UPCI Gen Supt. Election Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway
??????????????
Are you saying that your answer to my questions are obvious?
dead on cowboy ! dont tell me you or anybody else is any different.i sure wouldnt be good with it if an ayatollah somewhere said it.by thier fruits....
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