More on Skirts

[Sister Alvear]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Sis, all that is dealing with an abomination to YOU. Their Levitical food prohibitions were for health reasons. Most researchers and scholars found that because of these food laws. Many Medieval Jewish communities survived through the black plague of Europe. Micheal Nostradamus was a Medieval Jew who used Jewish foods to help cure plague victims. While he wasn't able to save his own family, he was able to save others.

Sis, do you get up in the pulpit and preach your opinions? Those God is Love jokers must have a field day with a comment like that?

I have never been known to get up in the pulpit and preach opinions....I am only saying the word abomination cannot be used to form a doctrine. You are right it was food laws that helped them have longer and better lives.

I meant no offence ...just wanted to point out sometimes we all get so "stuck" on things of no real importance to salvation that the real thing is often forgotten. People get up and preach on colored shirts for example and many people (especially the simple) make that into a heaven or hell issue here in Brazil.

Talking about the black plague strange I mentioned that last Sunday....

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have never been known to get up in the pulpit and preach opinions....

So, why were you doing it now?

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I am only saying the word abomination cannot be used to form a doctrine. You are right it was food laws that helped them have longer and better lives.

I meant no offence ...just wanted to point out sometimes we all get so "stuck" on things of no real importance to salvation that the real thing is often forgotten. People get up and preach on colored shirts for example and many people (especially the simple) make that into a heaven or hell issue here in Brazil.

Talking about the black plague strange I mentioned that last Sunday....

Colored shirts?

Cufflinks?

Love thy neighbor or else you go to the back of the line?

Sister, we aren't talking about voodoo, we are talking about the Bible book (Old Testament) which Jesus and the apostles preached from.

So, which of these verses were of no real importance to salvation?


Leviticus 18:22

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is ABOMINATION.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an ABOMINATION: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Deuteronomy 22:5

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are
ABOMINATION unto the LORD thy God.

Proverbs 6:16-19

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an ABOMINATION unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 11:20

They that are of a froward heart are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but such as are upright in their way are his delight.

Proverbs 12:22

Lying lips are ABOMINATION to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 15:26

The thoughts of the wicked are an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.


Proverbs 15:8

The sacrifice of the wicked is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: but the prayer of the upright is his delight.

Proverbs 16:5

Every one that is proud in heart is an ABOMINATION to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Proverbs 17:15

He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 20:10

Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike ABOMINATION to the LORD.

Proverbs 28:9

He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be ABOMINATION.

[Sister Alvear]

I am sorry we are misunderstanding...I am talking about the scripture ( Lev. 11) that I pasted ...about foods....I never never meant it to sound like the OT was not important...sorry...The whole Bible is important. However not everything in the OT has to be obeyed today.

[Sister Alvear]

I really should not even post here....I post between fixing food, taking care of company and always a houseful of people and a thousand (?) things to do...lol....

By the way nothing to do with this ...but we had 30 to receive the Holy Ghost last night!

[Aquila]

The Law is an all or nothing proposition. If you claim to keep the Law... you're bound to keep all of it.

Now, one can glean understanding from the Law, but not be under it's demands. For example, I can glean that various things are offensive to God... but I don't have to stone sinners as the Law might require in some cases.

Also, many "abominations" are ceremonial in nature. These are not abominations to those who are not under the ceremonial demands of the Law.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I am sorry we are misunderstanding...I am talking about the scripture ( Lev. 11) that I pasted ...about foods....I never never meant it to sound like the OT was not important...sorry...The whole Bible is important. However not everything in the OT has to be obeyed today.

No one is saying that everything in the OT was to be observed. The point about food laws was already tackled. An abomination unto you can make you sick, and an abomination unto God makes Him sick.

Jesus, Paul and the apostles preached right out of an Old Testament. Book, chapter, and verse. I just wanted to know when did they abrogate these verses, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, Proverbs 6:16-19, Proverbs 11:20, Proverbs 12:22, Proverbs 15:26, Proverbs 15:8 ,Proverbs 16:5, Proverbs 17:15, Proverbs 20:10, and Proverbs 28:9?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The Law is an all or nothing proposition. If you claim to keep the Law... you're bound to keep all of it.

Now, one can glean understanding from the Law, but not be under it's demands. For example, I can glean that various things are offensive to God... but I don't have to stone sinners as the Law might require in some cases.

Also, many "abominations" are ceremonial in nature. These are not abominations to those who are not under the ceremonial demands of the Law.

Wow, Aquila, homosexual, and lesbian clergy (oxymoron warning) teach the very same thing. They teach that when God had a prohibition against homosexuality and crossdressing He was referring against pagan ceremonies.
Yet, that would also make lying and giving false testimony get a pass just as long as it was in the boundaries of the Faith?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Deut 22:5 provides a prohibition. It does not explain the reason for the prohibition.

Scholars tell us about many practices of the day that involved pagan priests dressing as goddesses and priestesses dressing like gods. We also know that some scholars have claimed this has to do with wearing garments for war. And both of these positions have some degree of merit.

However, I think there is a common sense answer to this. Here we read about a brother's livestock going astray and how one is to return it or keep it until it can be given back. We read that we are to do the same if it is a brother's donkey or garment. And if we see a brother's donkey in a ditch, we are to rescue it and return it to him.

So far, everything is about returning another's property, keeping it until you can return it, or ensuring that it doesn't suffer damage. Then there is this reference to not wearing the opposite gender's clothing.

It is not uncommon for crossdressers and gender benders to keep clothing they find belonging to the opposite gender. They have even been known to steal it because they wouldn't buy it publically.

So, I believe it is relating to the crossdressing perversion. Don't keep a sisters clothes and prance around the house like a lady in them. It's an abomination. Return it.

If obedience is necessary because of the word "abomination", then to be consistent, all abominations must be enforced, not just a few.

But no one in the NT placed any importance on the word "abomination." Which begs the question: is the abomination doctrine in the NT at all ?

All sin is an abomination to God.

[Aquila]

The following is a list of things the Bible considers an abomination:

•Unclean things (Lev. 7:21)
•Customs of pagans (Lev. 18:30)
•Idols (2 Chr. 15:8; 1 Pet. 4:3)
•Sins of men (Ps. 14:1; 53:1)
•Cheating (Mic. 6:10)
•Lost souls (Rev. 21:8)
•A froward man (perverse; one who turns aside (Pro. 3:32; 11:20)
•A proud look (Pro. 6:16-17)
•A lying tongue (Pro. 6:17; 12:22)
•Hands that shed innocent blood ((Pro. 6:17)
•A wicked scheming heart (Pro. 6:18)
•Feet that are quick to sin (Pro. 6:18)
•A false witness that speaks lies (Pro. 6:19)
•A sower of discord (Pro. 6:19)
•Wickedness (Pro. 8:7)
•A false balance or scale (Pro. 11:1)
•Sacrifices of the wicked (Pro. 15:8; 21:27)
•The way of the wicked (Pro. 15:9)
•The thoughts of the wicked (Pro. 15:26)
•The proud of heart (Pro. 16:5)
•Justifying the wicked (Pro. 17:15)
•Condemning the just (Pro. 17:15)
•Divers, dishonest weights (Pro. 20:10, 23)
•Divers, dishonest measures (Pro. 20:10)
•Refusing to hear the law (Pro. 28:9)
•Prayers of the rebel (Pro. 28:9)
•Eating flesh of peace offerings on the 3rd day (Lev. 7:18)
•Same sex acts (Lev. 18:22; 20:13; Dt. 23:18)
•Taking ornaments from idols when being destroyed (Dt. 7:25-26)
•Any Idolatrous practices (Dt. 12:31; 13:14; 17:4; 18:9; 20:18; 29:17)
•Offering an imperfect animal to God as a sacrifice (Dt. 17:1)
•Any traffic with demons (Dt. 18:7-12)
•Wearing clothes of the opposite sex (Dt. 22:5)
•Bringing the hire of a harlot or sodomite into God's house (Dt. 23:18)
•Re-marriage of former companions (Dt. 24:1-4)
•Cheating others (Dt. 25:13-16)
•Making images/idols (Dt. 27:15)
•Idols of Ammon (1 Ki. 11:5)
•Idols of Moab (1 Ki. 11:7; 2 Ki. 11:13)
•Idols of Zidon (2 Ki. 23:13)
•Incense offered by hypocrites (Isa. 1:13)
•Eating unclean things (Isa. 66:17)
•Offering human sacrifices (Jer. 32:35)
•Robbery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Murder (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Adultery (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Oppression of others, particularly the poor or vulnerable (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Violence (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Breaking vows (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Lending with interest to a brother (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Lying with a menstruous woman (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Hardness of heart (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Injustice (Ezek. 18: 6-13)
•Worship of anti-Christ (Dan. 11:31; 12:11; Mt. 24:15; 2 Th. 2:4; Rev. 13)
•Incest (Lev. 19: 6-30)
•Things highly esteemed by man (Lk. 16:15)
•Many other sins of the nations (Lev. 18: 26-29; Dt. 18: 9-12; 20:18; 29:17; 1 Ki. 14:24; 21:2, 11; 23:24; 2 Chr. 28:3; 33:2; 34:33; 36:14; Ezek. 7: 3-20; 8: 6-17; 16: 2-58; 20: 4-30; Rev. 17: 4-5)

It is abundantly clear from scripture that all sin is considered an abomination by God. While one can debate degrees of seriousness and punishment for sin, it is clear that, according to the Bible, all sin is an abomination.

[Amanah]

princess boy . . .