New Doctrine Emerges: NOT Forgiven at Repentance - Page 15

staysharp · #**141** 09-05-2008, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams View Post
Here we go. There was a little girl who went out to play in her brand new dress. She saw a mud puddle and thought "Why not?" and jumped right in. She got her dress filthy. Realizing the wrong she had done, she went to her father in tears of true remorse, saying "Daddy please forgive me!"(repentance). Her dad's heart melts and he says "I forgive you."(forgiveness of sin). She is forgiven and won't be punished, but her dress is still filthy and is not presentable. Her dad would still be ashamed of her in public. Her dad then washes the dress with a healthy dose of spray-n-wash(baptism), and the dress comes out sparkling clean(remission of sin). He then plants a device in the dress(Spirit) that sounds an audible and visible alarm whenever she goes near the mud again(power over sin).

Repentance= forgiveness of sin
Water Baptism in Jesus' Name= remission(washing away) of sin
Holy Spirit Baptism= power over sin

This has to be the silliest and most unscriptural analogy I've ever heard.

Humanity did not go "out to play" in her shiny new little dress. We were born in our sin and shapen in iniquity. We were born into this world separated from God because of ONE man's disobedience. It was by the OBEDIENCE of Christ (not ours) that we are made righteous.

You and I did not "jump into" a mud puddle. We were born apart from God because of Adam. Sin is not our fault, we were born with it. God's greatest law of the universe is "seed time and harvest". Everything reproduces after its own kind. We are sinners because of Adam and are born through his seed.

Christ himself purifies us as God received his sacrifice for our sins. (Zach 3) "By His stripes were are healed"...

Your analogy has bypassed Jesus Christ and the atoning work of the Cross.

We are made "clean" by the words of Christ (not baptism). "Father forgive them...for they know not what they do"... The words he speaks are spirit and life. John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word...1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Our heavenly father will only be "ashamed" of us if we are "ashamed" of His son Jesus Christ. (Luke 9:26
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Plants an alarm in the dress? Stupid. We are made dead to sin and alive to Christ. The old man is past away and behold all things become new. We are born of a new nature...the nature of Christ. When we sin, we have an advocate with the father...Christ Jesus.

Sorry, but your doctrine is heresy.

Tim Rutledge · #**142** 09-05-2008, 09:25 PM

Read and obey Acts 2:38.
Your in the wrong forum.

staysharp
on ignore.

staysharp · #**143** 09-05-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Rutledge

Find a different forum man.
Your clueless.

Tim, I respect you sir, but that analogy is completely unscriptural. Please review my response with an open mind.

Ev. Duane Williams · #**144** 09-05-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams View Post
Here we go. There was a little girl who went out to play in her brand new dress. She saw a mud puddle and thought "Why not?" and jumped right in. She got her dress filthy. Realizing the wrong she had done, she went to her father in tears of true remorse, saying "Daddy please forgive me!"(repentance). Her dad's heart melts and he says "I forgive you."(forgiveness of sin). She is forgiven and won't be punished, but her dress is still filthy and is not presentable. Her dad would still be ashamed of her in public. Her dad then washes the dress with a healthy dose of spray-n-wash(baptism), and the dress comes out sparkling clean(remission of sin). He then plants a device in the dress(Spirit) that sounds an audible and visible alarm whenever she goes near the mud again(power over sin).

Repentance= forgiveness of sin
Water Baptism in Jesus' Name= remission(washing away) of sin
Holy Spirit Baptism= power over sin

This has to be the silliest and most unscriptural analogy I've ever heard.

Humanity did not go "out to play" in her shiny new little dress. We were born in our sin and shapen in iniquity. We were born into this world separated from God because of ONE man's disobedience. It was by the OBEDIENCE of Christ (not ours) that we are made righteous.

You and I did not "jump into" a mud puddle. We were born apart from God because of Adam. Sin is not our fault, we were born with it. God's greatest law of the universe is "seed time and harvest". Everything reproduces after its own kind. We are sinners because of Adam and are born through his seed.

Christ himself purifies us as God received his sacrifice for our sins. (Zach 3) "By His stripes were are healed"...

Your analogy has bypassed Jesus Christ and the atoning work of the Cross.

We are made "clean" by the words of Christ (not baptism). "Father forgive them...for they know not what they do"... The words he speaks are spirit and life. John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word...1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Our heavenly father will only be "ashamed" of us if we are "ashamed" of His son Jesus Christ. (Luke 9:26
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

Plants an alarm in the dress? Stupid. We are made dead to sin and alive to Christ. The old man is past away and behold all things become new. We are born of a new nature...the nature of Christ. When we sin, we have an advocate with the father...Christ Jesus.

Sorry, but your doctrine is heresy.

I guess all of Jesus' parables were silly too, eh. I mean, being "born of the water and of the Spirit"? And by the way, on the Catholic "original sin" doctrine, God said no man shall be punished for the sins of his father. Trust me, people won't be able to say, "I had to sin, it's the way you made me, I couldn't help it" on judgement day. Yes, we all jumped into the mud, but thankfully we didn't tarry, we arose and were Baptized, WASHING AWAY OUR SINS, calling on the Name of the Lord(Acts 22:16). Those who preach so fervently against Baptism will have to give an account of why they directly fought against God's Word in the following Scriptures:

Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Acts 10:47
Acts 22:16
Romans 6:3-4
1 Corinthians 12:13
Galatians 3:27
John 3:5
1 John 5:8
Colossians 2:12
1 Peter 3:21

Sam · #**145** 09-05-2008, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timlan2057

...
Now will one of you great theologians elaborate well and be specific and tell me what the difference is between FORGIVENESS and REMITTANCE?

A whole lot of theology is based on the difference between forgiveness and remission because they are different words in English even though in Greek the same single word is some times translated forgiveness and some times translated remission in the KJV.

mizpeh · #**146** 09-05-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Not when you understand Justification and the New Birth... not just give it lip service.

Be consistent about a vessel that has sin and the indwelling of the HOLY Spirit.

Be truthful about what and how I believe. I don't give lip service to God or hold His word lightly.

MissBrattified · #**147** 09-05-2008, 10:01 PM

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

In this verse, the words are different both in the English AND the Greek. Is there a difference or not?

There are numerous verses that talk about John preaching the "baptism of repentance"...are baptism and repentance/remission one single work?

MissBrattified · #**148** 09-05-2008, 10:03 PM

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

It seems to me that the obvious reconciliation of these scriptures IS that repentance, baptism and remission are intertwined. I think there is a misnomer here...and that is that "repentance", as we understand it, is even a step of salvation. "Repent[ance]" as it stands in Acts 2:38 or Luke 24:47 would be more akin to feeling conviction.

The fact that we have divided salvation up into steps is ridiculous to begin with.

staysharp · #**149** 09-05-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ev. Duane Williams

I guess all of Jesus' parables were silly too, eh. I mean, being "born of the water and of the Spirit"? And by the way, on the Catholic "original sin" doctrine, God said no man shall be punished for the sins of his father. Trust me, people won't be able to say, "I had to sin, it's the way you made me, I couldn't help it" on judgement day. Yes, we all jumped into the mud, but thankfully we didn't tarry, we arose and were Baptized, WASHING AWAY OUR SINS, calling on the Name of the Lord(Acts 22:16). Those who preach so fervently against Baptism will have to give an account of why they directly fought against God's Word in the following Scriptures:

Acts 2:38
Mark 16:16
Acts 10:47
Acts 22:16
Romans 6:3-4
1 Corinthians 12:13
Galatians 3:27
John 3:5
1 John 5:8
Colossians 2:12
1 Peter 3:21

Evan...thanks for your response. I don't mean to offend you. Please quote me a scripture in which you state "God said...no man will be punished for his father's sin." Are you aware that God judged the nation of Israel for the sins of their ancestors? For the killing of prophets?

Now with regard to John 3, this is always an interesting verse. It's easy to make an assumption Jesus was talking about baptism...but this word "water" in the original text means "rainwater".

Jesus said...John 3..except a man be born of water and spirit...next verse...that which is born of flesh is flesh...that which is born of spirit is spirit. There is a fleshly birth and a spiritual.

Jesus was talking to Nicodemus a ruler of the temple. Jesus was actually quoting Ezekiel's prophecy referring to the work of Messiah to the nation of Israel when Messiah would come. Jesus was telling Nicodemus...He was messiah! Nicodemus would have been familiar with the prophecy being a ruler in the temple.

That is why he told Nicodemus...Marvel not that I say unto you, you must be born again.
Ezekiel 36
23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

I don't have time tonight to get into judgment, but maybe at a later time. I will say this; we cannot help but to sin, that's who we are without Christ. When we stand before Christ, he will judge us himself; if we die in our sins, we have no hope, but if we die with Christ, we are present with Him.

MissBrattified · #**150** 09-05-2008, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staysharp

Evan...thanks for your response. I don't mean to offend you. Please quote me a scripture in which you state "God said...no man will be punished for his father's sin." Are you aware that God judged the nation of Israel for the sins of their ancestors? For the killing of prophets?

Perhaps it's this one:

II Chronicles 25:4 But he slew not their children, but did as it is written in the law in the book of Moses, where the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.