Do OPs have a grace problem?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

People fail to realize that there is NOTHING we can DO that impresses God. From our fallen state the ONLY thing we can rely on is GRACE.

And interestingly enough... Christianity is the only religion that teaches a God of grace. Every other religion has strict rules (legalism) one must live by to enter "heaven" upon death, or they have a rule of "karma" that determines their well being in the next incarnation.

When we see how accursed we REALLY are in comparison with how HOLY God truly is... we can't help but to fall on our faces realizing that unless He have grace and mercy... we are lost without hope.

God EXPECTS his people to be pleasing in his sight.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask , we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1 John 3:22

He will NOT even be with you unless you obey him.

9 Those things, which ye have both learned , and received , and heard , and seen in me, do : and the God of peace shall be with you.

If you don't keep his commandments you will not abide in his love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 1 John 15:10

If Chrisianity teaches one must keep commandments to enter Heaven there is a reason for it.

Why?

Because Christ taught it. His apostles taught it. The Church is to teach it.

11 He that is unjust , let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy , let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold , I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be . 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. Rev. 22:11-14

Jesus is straight forward about it. Yet the cunning serpent from the beginning tries to cast doubt on the truth and confuse people so they will turn their backs on God and he might rule over them.

He wants all Gods elect children to think the commands of Jesus are GRIEVOUS.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Tho you would teach its by the power of the Spirit one overcomes all day long the teachers of destruction will never hear it. They will accuse you of self righteousness every time. They don't understand how the favor/grace of God causes men to OBEY the truth.

The goal of the spirit of this age is that a Christian would fall. His doctrine is to confuse then conquer.

Christ taught "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect". Matt. 5:48

The enemy goes all out to make you and I believe Christ meant anything except what he said!

[Aquila]

Michael... you say that we must do what is pleasing in God's sight and obey His commandments.

Please present them for us all to see.

Otherwise... you've just engaged in religious chest beating.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Michael... you say that we must do what is pleasing in God's sight and obey His commandments.

Please present them for us all to see.

Otherwise... you've just engaged in religious chest beating.

So pathetic.

You accused ME of saying we must obey Gods commands. That's so twisted.

I quoted scripture. From Christ. From his apostles. Were they "religious chest beaters"?

To Christ a man obeying his teachings is not unusual. His mighty power inside them is greater than any power. Its like I said teachers of destruction will never hear that. Rather they delight in calling the sincere disciples "self righteous".

You read the Bible. If you don't know Christs commands by now Im starting to think you never will.

But heres something you can do if indeed you are called to it.

Notice the words of Christ.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo , I am with you alway , even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt:28:20

Observe all things I have commanded you.

Do this and you will live.

17 And the world passeth away , and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So pathetic.

You accused ME of saying we must obey Gods commands. That's so twisted.

I quoted scripture. From Christ. From his apostles. Were they "religious chest beaters"?

To Christ a man obeying his teachings is not unusual. His mighty power inside them is greater than any power. Its like I said teachers of destruction will never hear that. Rather they delight in calling the sincere disciples "self righteous".

You read the Bible. If you don't know Christs commands by now Im starting to think you never will.

But heres something you can do if indeed you are called to it.

Notice the words of Christ.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo , I am with you alway , even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt:28:20

Observe all things I have commanded you.

Do this and you will live.

17 And the world passeth away , and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:17

yeah. Of course he will accuse you of DESERVING salvation. oooooohhh legalist.

[Aquila]

Grace is the foundation of God's Work among men...

It was because of God's grace that God had a plan to save man in accordance with His foreknowledge that man would sin. It is by grace that God calls to Himself those He knows will endure until the end.

It is by grace that God chose to robe Himself in human flesh and provide our atonenment through the cross.

It is by grace that God chose to robe Himself in human flesh and serve as our propitiation.

It is by grace that God calls sinners to Himself through the prevenient grace of the Spirit when sinners both hear the word and feel the drawing of the Spirit.

It is by grace that a man is afforded an opportunity to believe and repent of sin, turning to Jesus, calling upon the name in water baptism.

It is by grace that a man is counted as being justified before God so that he might receive the Holy Ghost.

It is by grace that the Holy Ghost regenerates the spirit of the born again believer, making them sons and daughters of God.

It is by grace that God has much patience and is long suffering as the believer grows in sanctification throughout their lives.

It is by grace that God convicts and even corrects wayward saints that they might persevere in the faith.

It is by grace that the born again believer can say "Oh death, where is your sting?" upon his or her death bed.

It is by grace that the born again believer will be raised again, glorified, perfected, sinless, and eternally like Jesus.

It is all by grace through faith.

[Aquila]

Did we impress God or earn His choosing us according to His foreknowledge? No. It was because of God's love and grace.

Did we impress God or earn God's choosing to be our atonement? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He chose to provide atonement through His shed blood.

Did we impress God or earn God's choosing to be our propitiation? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He chose to provide propitiation through His shed blood.

Did we impress God or earn God's choosing us to hear the Gospel or to draw us in accordance to His prevenient grace? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He chose to call us to the light of His truth.

Did we impress God or earn God's approval that we might be afforded an opportunity to repent, be baptized, and filled with the Spirit? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He gave us this opportunity.

Did we impress God or earn God's desire to regenerate our souls and dwell inside us? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He has chosen to do this.

Did we impress God or earn God's desire to call us sons and daughters? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He chose to call us sons and daughters.

Did we impress God or earn the opportunity to grow in Christlike sanctification from the pit of our sinful lives? No, it was because of God's grace that we have been afforded the opportunity to surrender self and become like Christ.

Did we impress God or earn God's desire to convict and correct us along life's journey to insure that we persevere in the faith? No, it was because of God's love and grace that He has chosen to do this.

Did we impress God or earn God's desire to make us victorious over death and the grave? No, it was God's love and grace that God has afforded us this victory.

Did we impress God or earn God's desire to raise us from the dead and glorify us in the same manner as the man Christ Jesus? No, was God's love and grace that He determined to do this for us before time began.

Grace. It's the very essence of everything God does with man. Without it... God would let man rot on this rock and become extinguished from creation.

[Aquila]

So let us put away that which assults God's grace and makes light of it. For without grace... none of us have a snow ball's chance in Hades. Because even on our best days... we're nowhere near good enough to earn so much as a second of God's attention. Remember... God doesn't need us. We desperately need Him. And as we prance around patting ourselves on the backs about how "holy" we are because we dress funny or do this or that... let us remember... we're still vile in God's sight without the blood.

[Aquila]

We have forgotten how HOLY God truly is. If God so much as materialized on earth in all His power and glory without a robe of human flesh, all of creation would spontaniously combust. Every atom in heaven and earth would flee in terror from His presence. The rocks would cry out weeping for mercy. They are wiser that we. Yet God, in His grace and mercy, came to us as the holy healer who walked the desert sands of Palestine. The healer was brutally beaten... the hands that healed were pierced by nails. There, outside of the city He hung on a cross... for you. All for you... and we have the arrogant audacity to malign the very essence of His grace? Oh that we were as wise as the rocks!!!

We have no idea how many times angels have stood, hands on the very hilts of their swords ready to annihilate us... yet God stays their hand and says, "Patience... patience." In disbelief the angels say, "Holy One, do you not see their vile, sinful, detestible wickedness???!!!" And as a tear rolls down His HOLY face He answers...

"But I love them. They are my children. May their shame, guilt, punishment, and damanation be upon me. May my cross and suffering be counted as their own. While they were yet sinners... I loved them... and I died for them. They are... my children."

And we dare insult the Spirit of Grace???

Oh that we would take Paul's words as the most serious warnings of all Scripture...

Galatians 5:4
King James Version (KJV)
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

If ANY law or tradition is seen as being able to justify you in God's sight... YOU'VE FALLEN FROM GRACE. CONDEMNED WHERE YOU STAND. WITHOUT GRACE... WE GET WHAT WE DESERVE!!!

And WHO would EVER want that???

Only one so blind to their own sin and vile condition that they actually think that they can impress God with their pathetic, diseased, and superficially pious religiosity. In loosing sight of God's HOLINESS... we've lost sight of our own sinfulness. Only from the position of the most desperate of sinful, vile, wretched can we truly appreciate God's Holiness... and His grace and love towards us.

Without grace... we might as well all go home and "live it up". Because we're absolutely doomed. Ah... but praise Him for His love and grace. Because it is through His grace that He brings true glory to Himself. All of creation was poised to watch God destroy everything when man fell... but when God demonstrated GRACE... He revealed His LOVE. And in this He receives all glory, honor, and praise.

Without grace... it's all in vain.

[Aquila]

How DARE we spit and snarl at the idea of... GRACE?

[Aquila]

I'm not saying that we are not to do good works. Oh no, we are called to! But I'm saying that we are saved by grace TO DO good works. All that we do for God must be done in the very shadow of grace... else it is nothing but a vile and detestible attempt to elevate self attained "righteousness" (self-righteousness) to Heaven, standard by pathetic standard, like the very bricks of the tower of Babel.