House Churches: What are your thoughts?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I don't mean to make anyone feel that way. In the course of a discussion things evolve. For example, when I was accused of believing in prayer for the dead. I solemnly affirm before God almighty that I've never prayed in any manner that I believe can change a dead person's eternal destiny.

I see what you did there. I'm not going to argue with you, but you did say you pray mercy for the dead. Now, whether or not you were being truthful or playing your stupid game, I don't know. Here's one of your posts where you say you pray for mercy for the dead.

Originally Posted by Aquila

When I say or offer the prayer that God have mercy on someone's soul, it is sometimes out of decency, decorum. It's appropriate. It's a kindness.

All I have is a prayer to God that expresses my desire for their salvation. Now, God will judge as He desires. I don't believe God is going to hear my prayer and change His judgment because of little ol' me. Which means, my prayer may very well just be an expression of concern.

So you were lying here? You don't really pray for the dead to express your desire for their salvation?

Originally Posted by Aquila

But, the accusation was made. So... with raised eyebrow, I began to entertain the idea... God is sovereign. Hypothetically, IF God chose to have mercy predicated upon a prayer, would that be His sovereign right? That launched us into questions about sovereignty and possibilities of God having mercy outside of Acts 2:38. Of course, my accusers are valiant defenders of truth who truly believe I pray for the dead. LOL I'm just entertaining a hypothetical and curiously watching them accuse instead of truly ask. LOL

Revisionist history there. My first two posts in response to your post about praying for the dead included questions.

Originally Posted by n david

You're not serious.... are you?

You responded by claiming that yes, you pray for mercy, but you don't mean you can freely pray the dead into heaven.

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm not saying that we can freely pray the dead into salvation. I'm saying that in saying goodbye to someone you love, it does no harm to pray that God have mercy upon them.

Originally Posted by n david

Please explain. Because it certainly appears that's what you're saying.

While you didn't direct quote, I believe this was in response to my question. In this post, you (again) mention you pray mercy for the dead. You express desire for their salvation.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Look, when I say I'd pray that God have mercy on someone's soul... it's because I believe they need mercy for error, the sinful life they lived, or how they've treated others. It's because without some sovereign act of mercy, I concur that they are Hell bound. So, please, don't misconstrue this to think that I think they are worthy or deserving of Heaven.

When I say or offer the prayer that God have mercy on someone's soul, it is sometimes out of decency, decorum. It's appropriate. It's a kindness.

And yes, I do wish that God would have mercy on all men. But those who die in a state of alienation from God, there really isn't anything I can do to help them. All I have is a prayer to God that expresses my desire for their salvation. Now, God will judge as He desires. I don't believe God is going to hear my prayer and change His judgment because of little ol' me. Which means, my prayer may very well just be an expression of concern.

So which is it, Aquila? Is the first post a lie or is your explanation a lie? You DID say you pray mercy for the dead ... in more than one post. But now you claim you don't.

This is why I said I can't take you serious. You're worse than Sean. At least Sean posted what he believed and stuck to it. You believe yourself to be clever, but you're clever by half.

Here's a suggestion: mean what you post and post what you mean. If a post is challenged, don't spin it into "well I was just hypothesizing" or "I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't really mean it."

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

I see what you did there. I'm not going to argue with you, but you did say you pray mercy for the dead. Now, whether or not you were being truthful or playing your stupid game, I don't know. Here's one of your posts where you say you pray for mercy for the dead.


So you were lying here? You don't really pray for the dead to express your desire for their salvation?




Revisionist history there. My first two posts in response to your post about praying for the dead included questions.



You responded by claiming that yes, you pray for mercy, but you don't mean you can freely pray the dead into heaven.




While you didn't direct quote, I believe this was in response to my question. In this post, you (again) mention you pray mercy for the dead. You express desire for their salvation.



So which is it, Aquila? Is the first post a lie or is your explanation a lie? You DID say you pray mercy for the dead ... in more than one post. But now you claim you don't.

This is why I said I can't take you serious. You're worse than Sean. At least Sean posted what he believed and stuck to it. You believe yourself to be clever, but you're clever by half.

Here's a suggestion: mean what you post and post what you mean. If a post is challenged, don't spin it into "well I was just hypothesizing" or "I'm just playing devil's advocate, I don't really mean it."

Do you see what I'm talking about, Amanah?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I Of course, my accusers are valiant defenders of truth who truly believe I pray for the dead.

Nobody believes you really pray for the dead. Rather, many here believe that nothing you say can be taken at face value, per your own admissions.

[Aquila]

I pray that God have mercy on all men.

Does that mean He will, or that He must?

Does that make me a universalist? Lol

This thought just occurred to me... (notice, Amanah, I'm pondering, not declaring, not affirming, nor declaring doctrine or dogma)

Are there degrees of torment in Hell?

Paul said that for some, it would be better if they had never known the way of truth, than to have known it and departed from it. Jesus mentions the two servants, one who knew the master's will and one who did not. Both committed deeds worthy of punishment. The one who didn't know the master's will was beaten with few stripes. The one who knew the masters will, was beaten with many stripes. For unto whom much is given, much will be required.

Might God choose to be merciful to the lost soul who didn't know better, or who didn't have sufficient truth to be born again? Perhaps not a saving mercy, but a mercy that lessens torment, in comparison to those who knew the truth and departed from it?

Is it ever inappropriate to pray or desire that God have mercy (no matter how little or how great)?Must we assume that mercy must always equal salvation?

If we do not desire that God be merciful, do we take pleasure in the damnation of men?

In our prayers and expressions, our sentiments, and our hopes, we reveal... what spirit we are of.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nobody believes you really pray for the dead. Rather, many here believe that nothing you say can be taken at face value, per your own admissions.

Yes!

To ask what is meant, to seek to understand. To ponder and entertain even the craziest of thoughts. To peer beyond the madness, and discover that which had never been considered.

In this pondering, the thought in the post above was born. Something I had yet to consider in this context.

[Amanah]

"Space... The final frontier...
These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
Its continuing mission:
To explore strange new worlds...
To seek out new life; new civilizations...
To boldly go where no one has gone before!"
-- Jean-Luc Picard, Captain, Starship Enterprise; NCC-1701D

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

"Space... The final frontier...
These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise.
Its continuing mission:
To explore strange new worlds...
To seek out new life; new civilizations...
To boldly go where no one has gone before!"
-- Jean-Luc Picard, Captain, Starship Enterprise; NCC-1701D

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nobody believes you really pray for the dead. Rather, many here believe that nothing you say can be taken at face value, per your own admissions.

Once again my brother you nailed it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes!

To ask what is meant, to seek to understand.

Well, no one can say that you don't love the sound of your own voice.
You sure must love reading your own posts.

Originally Posted by Aquila

To ponder and entertain even the craziest of thoughts.

Why?

Originally Posted by Aquila

To peer beyond the madness, and discover that which had never been considered.

You sound like someone whose burned one too many dubes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

In this pondering, the thought in the post above was born. Something I had yet to consider in this context.

Bro, you way too much time on your hands.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I pray that God have mercy on all men.

Does that mean He will, or that He must?

Get...out...of...here...MAN!!!!

Are you kidding me? Bro, why do you play these games?

You pray that God has mercy on all men? No, Billy Graham was deader than fried chicken. When you had a hair pulling contest with me over his getting mercy from God. You pray for all men? Yeah all dead famous preachers.

People would have way more respect for you if they thought you were genuine. Instead of playing Mr Naked In Corn Flakes.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Does that make me a universalist? Lol

No, actually it makes you an antagonist. A boring one, but an antagonist. It gets old.

Originally Posted by Aquila

This thought just occurred to me... (notice, Amanah, I'm pondering, not declaring, not affirming, nor declaring doctrine or dogma)

Don't worry about Amana she has a keen eye, and a sober mind.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Are there degrees of torment in Hell?

Yes, I will die and get locked in a room with you and have to listen to you preach for all eternity.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Paul said that for some, it would be better if they had never known the way of truth, than to have known it and departed from it.

Is that so? Well, listen dude, you went up one side and down the other in that Billy Graham thread. All trying to make a case for Billy Graham getting mercy outside of truth. Now you want to quote Paul? Whatever.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Jesus mentions the two servants, one who knew the master's will and one who did not. Both committed deeds worthy of punishment. The one who didn't know the master's will was beaten with few stripes. The one who knew the masters will, was beaten with many stripes. For unto whom much is given, much will be required.

Wow, that's Israel in the law, and the Gentiles who weren't under the law.
Bro, this isn't rocket science. To much is GIVEN, the Law was GIVEN to Israel.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Might God choose to be merciful to the lost soul who didn't know better, or who didn't have sufficient truth to be born again? Perhaps not a saving mercy, but a mercy that lessens torment, in comparison to those who knew the truth and departed from it?

Here you go folks, the more you let this guy post the more he makes his critics right about what he had posted. Brother ndavid is vindicated once again. Chris, you pray that God has mercy on all men? Yeah DEAD MEN.

Originally Posted by Aquila

Is it ever inappropriate to pray or desire that God have mercy (no matter how little or how great)?Must we assume that mercy must always equal salvation?

No, it is stupid to pray for dead people, because they are dead. Pray for LIVING people where there is still hope.

Originally Posted by Aquila

If we do not desire that God be merciful, do we take pleasure in the damnation of men?

Chris, you take pleasure in being antagonistic. You say stupid things at times and sadly you do it frequently.

Originally Posted by Aquila

In our prayers and expressions, our sentiments, and our hopes, we reveal... what spirit we are of.

Bro? Do you even lift?