Lesbian Teens Allowed At Prom -Scottsboro, AL

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Anyone who has ever worked with the handicapped or the mentally retarded knows that genetics and biology can be a factor in violent and/or irrational or psychotic behavior. This isn’t always a “choice” nor is it a “spirit”. It’s a part of our fallen human biological condition. Down through the centuries the church has believed that nearly every physiological ailment (for example the palsy) was the result of an unclean spirit. But today we in the church know that some cases are spiritual in nature and others are biological. Why couldn’t this also be truth of this condition? Certainly some may have “chosen” this behavior later in life as a result of abuse or unchecked lust (as Paul condemns). However, there may also be those who have struggled with this since they were the smallest of children. These individuals may indeed be bound by their biology and in need of more compassion that we are offering.

The Bible never addresses how we are to deal with those who have been this way from birth or their earliest years. For these individuals this isn’t a “lust” it’s a condition. Paul’s condemnation was aimed at those of the same gender who burned in lust one toward another and abandoned their previous natural interests as a result of their pagan godlessness. But what about a person who was never attracted to the opposite gender? Are these individuals to be viewed as abominations or people struggling with a condition?

My point is that there may be a distinction between those who give themselves over to homosexual lust for the sake of pleasure and those who have never felt heterosexual. No doubt one would even take advantage of the other. I feel saddened at how this can open up the one struggling with this to abuse. For example I’ve heard stories about how a young man might open up to his pastor about this struggle he’s had all his life…and then the pastor seeks to take advantage of him by propositioning the young man. Who’s the sinner? The young man who has never felt straight and is battling this; r the pastor who has been straight for most of his life, is married, but now preys upon this person struggling with this condition?

There may be a difference. I don’t have the answers…I’m just asking the questions.

Sorry dude! There is ZERO conclusive evidence that there is a genetic or biological predisposition. You are making an argument from a "straw man." It is something that is against God's creative order for His creative purpose.

I have dealt with homosexuals and EVERY single one I have dealt with, it was a learned behavior. It may have been learned very young in the absence of a male figure in their lives but it was learned.

Their same sex attraction may come from a heart "wound" a disappointment or just being around females more than males or the opposite if they are female. Yes, it is a choice to follow the perversion of God's created order or walk the other direction. NO sin that we have become accustomed to is easy to leave behind. There must be a deliverance and a dependence.

My predisposition to become an alcohol/drug addict was learned behavior from my Mother. I learned it, perfected it, got delivered from it and now have a dependency on the King of Kings. I was, but now I am not.

The only way one is chained to their sin is to believe that is who they are. One says, "Oh, well, I'm just attracted to little boys. I can't help myself. I shouldn't be held accountable because that is just who I am. It's not my fault. The internet made me that way. My uncle Ernie made me this way."

On and on and on the excuses for sin go. The excuse is irrelevant. The cure is the same. There is NO chain which Jesus can't break!!!!!!

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Sorry dude! There is ZERO conclusive evidence that there is a genetic or biological predisposition. You are making an argument from a "straw man." It is something that is against God's creative order for His creative purpose.

I have dealt with homosexuals and EVERY single one I have dealt with, it was a learned behavior. It may have been learned very young in the absence of a male figure in their lives but it was learned.

Their same sex attraction may come from a heart "wound" a disappointment or just being around females more than males or the opposite if they are female. Yes, it is a choice to follow the perversion of God's created order or walk the other direction. NO sin that we have become accustomed to is easy to leave behind. There must be a deliverance and a dependence.

My predisposition to become an alcohol/drug addict was learned behavior from my Mother. I learned it, perfected it, got delivered from it and now have a dependency on the King of Kings. I was, but now I am not.

The only way one is chained to their sin is to believe that is who they are. One says, "Oh, well, I'm just attracted to little boys. I can't help myself. I shouldn't be held accountable because that is just who I am. It's not my fault. The internet made me that way. My uncle Ernie made me this way."

On and on and on the excuses for sin go. The excuse is irrelevant. The cure is the same. There is NO chain which Jesus can't break!!!!!!

I love it!

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Sorry dude! There is ZERO conclusive evidence that there is a genetic or biological predisposition. You are making an argument from a "straw man." It is something that is against God's creative order for His creative purpose.

You’re assuming that things are just as perfect as they were in the Garden of Eden. Today MANY things are the result of biological problems that go against God’s creative order for his creative purpose. You have people born with both male and female reproductive organs and estrogen/testosterone imbalances that wreak absolute havoc in regards to their gender, attractions, behaviors, and sense of gender identity.

I’ll do a little research on this and pull up some studies on this subject for us to consider. There are studies ranging mapping genetics of individuals struggling with this to blind pheromone tests to detect hormonal reactions in individuals to male or female hormone. All tests appear to indicate a definite biological factor.

I have dealt with homosexuals and EVERY single one I have dealt with, it was a learned behavior. It may have been learned very young in the absence of a male figure in their lives but it was learned.

I’ve also known a few individuals with this problem but their backgrounds differ. You have an individual from a broken home (possible gender identity issue), one that was abused by an older boy (possible abuse issue), and two that were Apostolic preacher’s kids, where did these parents go wrong? I’m sure they’d love to know. I think most don’t realize that when we say it’s a learned or conditioned behavior via abuse or environment we are placing a considerable amount of responsibility on parents who are doing the best they can. Some have done an exemplary job…and still their kids turn out to be gay. Where did they go wrong? Is it fair to place that kind of guilt on them? Am I to believe that these Apostolic preachers abused their sons? How do we explain the numerous individuals who were abused and didn’t turn out this way?

Their same sex attraction may come from a heart "wound" a disappointment or just being around females more than males or the opposite if they are female.

Get real! There are far more who have had “heart wounds” and who have been raised by females more than males who have turned out just fine. If this were true we’d see far more gay people today than you’d ever imagine. Remember, in the ancient world, women raised the children and men rarely involved themselves until the young men were well of age to be men. I don’t buy this one bro.

Yes, it is a choice to follow the perversion of God's created order or walk the other direction. NO sin that we have become accustomed to is easy to leave behind. There must be a deliverance and a dependence.

Is sin a “choice” or is it a condition that is part of our very nature as fallen creatures? The point is that we as human beings are fallen, flawed, and have no choice…we sin rather we like it or not. Sure, we get saved and learn to walk in the Spirit. Most of the time this means that we “sin less” not that we are “sinless”.

My predisposition to become an alcohol/drug addict was learned behavior from my Mother. I learned it, perfected it, got delivered from it and now have a dependency on the King of Kings. I was, but now I am not.

Actually research shows that some people have a tendency toward being genetically predisposed to addiction. My doctor briefed me on it when we discussed the benefits of red wine and heart health.

The only way one is chained to their sin is to believe that is who they are. One says, "Oh, well, I'm just attracted to little boys. I can't help myself. I shouldn't be held accountable because that is just who I am. It's not my fault. The internet made me that way. My uncle Ernie made me this way."

Again, you miss the point. No one is saying that one shouldn’t be held accountable for illegal actions or be held morally accountable for sinful actions. What we are saying is that there is an underlying root cause rooted in some folks genetics (flesh). Understanding this will influence us to more properly address the issue with various individuals. For example, let’s say we are dealing with an individual who has had same gender attraction their whole lives and it may indeed by genetic. Do you beat them over the head with a Bible demanding they “repent” of their condition, forcing them to try to “change” by “choosing” to be straight…or do you pray for forgiveness if sin was committed and pray for their “healing”? Sometimes we beat them down demanding they “repent” when what they need is a “healing”. Understanding the problem opens up more options in relation to how we deal with the issue.

On and on and on the excuses for sin go. The excuse is irrelevant. The cure is the same. There is NO chain which Jesus can't break!!!!!!

Amen. But is that chain a “choice” or part of a genetic condition predisposing toward a given behavior? Then do we pray that Christ break that chain by giving them strength to choose or do we break it by praying that Christ heal their fallen condition?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Antipas

You’re assuming that things are just as perfect as they were in the Garden of Eden. Today MANY things are the result of biological problems that go against God’s creative order for his creative purpose. You have people born with both male and female reproductive organs and estrogen/testosterone imbalances that wreak absolute havoc in regards to their gender, attractions, behaviors, and sense of gender identity.

I'm not assuming anything at all. You're the one who is assuming that there IS a genetic predisposition. That, my friend, is a HUGE assumption when there is no evidence to support that. The gay community is hoping/begging for something to grasp that will justify their choice of lifestyle. The gay lifestyle is the most unhappy, unfulfilled lifestyle there is and that is a proven fact. With multiple partners, multiple abuse and the list goes on and on about how unhappy the "gay" lifestyle is.

I’ll do a little research on this and pull up some studies on this subject for us to consider. There are studies ranging mapping genetics of individuals struggling with this to blind pheromone tests to detect hormonal reactions in individuals to male or female hormone. All tests appear to indicate a definite biological factor.



I’ve also known a few individuals with this problem but their backgrounds differ. You have an individual from a broken home (possible gender identity issue), one that was abused by an older boy (possible abuse issue), and two that were Apostolic preacher’s kids, where did these parents go wrong? I’m sure they’d love to know. I think most don’t realize that when we say it’s a learned or conditioned behavior via abuse or environment we are placing a considerable amount of responsibility on parents who are doing the best they can. Some have done an exemplary job…and still their kids turn out to be gay. Where did they go wrong? Is it fair to place that kind of guilt on them? Am I to believe that these Apostolic preachers abused their sons? How do we explain the numerous individuals who were abused and didn’t turn out this way?

There is no CERTAIN cause for same sex attraction. There are numerous factors which may contribute to it, but there has never been ONE cause that has been identified. I only stated things which may cause it. It is not conclusive.

Get real! There are far more who have had “heart wounds” and who have been raised by females more than males who have turned out just fine. If this were true we’d see far more gay people today than you’d ever imagine. Remember, in the ancient world, women raised the children and men rarely involved themselves until the young men were well of age to be men. I don’t buy this one bro.

I didn't say that this was the only cause. It is only a contributing factor in some situations and may be THE factor in some as well.

Is sin a “choice” or is it a condition that is part of our very nature as fallen creatures? The point is that we as human beings are fallen, flawed, and have no choice…we sin rather we like it or not. Sure, we get saved and learn to walk in the Spirit. Most of the time this means that we “sin less” not that we are “sinless”.

Sin is clearly a choice. I don't have to sin. I am not forced to sin. I am, however, predisposed to doing what I want, when I want and how I want. That is selfishness. The "how" is solely my choice. If it were purely genetic/biological, then I would be predisposed to be unfaithful to my wife when a female "hits" on me with "that" invitation. I have the intellect to resist and make another choice because I know it is not right. However, my biology wants something different. We are MORE than animals. We are humans who posses a conscience and a choice.

Actually research shows that some people have a tendency toward being genetically predisposed to addiction. My doctor briefed me on it when we discussed the benefits of red wine and heart health.

Actually we are ALL predisposed to addiction. We all will lean on something to carry us through this life because we are ALL broken and in need of ONE thing to complete us and that is the Almighty God. We choose our poison. I am dependent and so are you and so is everyone in this world. What we become dependent upon is solely our choice. I now choose He whom I was meant for!!!


Again, you miss the point. No one is saying that one shouldn’t be held accountable for illegal actions or be held morally accountable for sinful actions. What we are saying is that there is an underlying root cause rooted in some folks genetics (flesh). Understanding this will influence us to more properly address the issue with various individuals. For example, let’s say we are dealing with an individual who has had same gender attraction their whole lives and it may indeed by genetic. Do you beat them over the head with a Bible demanding they “repent” of their condition, forcing them to try to “change” by “choosing” to be straight…or do you pray for forgiveness if sin was committed and pray for their “healing”? Sometimes we beat them down demanding they “repent” when what they need is a “healing”. Understanding the problem opens up more options in relation to how we deal with the issue.

The truth is that we ALL get "bent" toward a plethora of "sins" during the course of our lives from a host of different stimuli. That is the truth of life. Our struggle is to do the right thing no matter what pulls us in the direction of sin. Once, again, I can make all the excuses I want and even correctly identify what the causes for my penchant are, but at the end of the day, I still have a choice and the Almighty God will grant me the strength to make it. And when I fall, He is there to pick me up.

Amen. But is that chain a “choice” or part of a genetic condition predisposing toward a given behavior? Then do we pray that Christ break that chain by giving them strength to choose or do we break it by praying that Christ heal their fallen condition?

We do both.

[Antipas]

Here's a thought....if there is a genetic link...could it be part of a generational curse or the result of a curse from God?

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Here's a thought....if there is a genetic link...could it be part of a generational curse or the result of a curse from God?

Seems like a generational homosexual curse would be short lived. ;-)

[My Own Eyes]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Seems like a generational homosexual curse would be short lived. ;-)

[DividedThigh]

Originally Posted by My Own Eyes

i agree with that sentiment, also, dt

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Seems like a generational homosexual curse would be short lived. ;-)

To one who doesn't know or understand homosexuality it would. LOL

But homosexuals often marry and raise children while secretly (in our culture) or openly being gay at the same time. When they finally come out they end up destroying their marriages and abandoning their children.

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by Antipas

To one who doesn't know or understand homosexuality it would. LOL

But homosexuals often marry and raise children while secretly (in our culture) or openly being gay at the same time. When they finally come out they end up destroying their marriages and abandoning their children.

I do understand homosexuality. :-) I have several friends no longer in that lifestyle and the comment was of course in jest.

BUT, I maintain that what passes for "homosexuality" is closer to what I would term "omnisexuality" just to cover all the bases. So far this thread has made no distinction between homosexuality and bisexuality. Very few are exclusively homosexual throughout their lives which I believe is alluded to even within your post.