Those who never heard about Jesus?

[Esaias]

Votive, I'll be back later for a more thorough response, but I want to point out this somewhat verifies what I said in other threads about how we view sin: crime vs unfortunate circumstance. I believe you have unintentionally converted grace into debt. I will show it when I return.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Jito463

He's here to "judge and condemn us", all while complaining that we're judging and condemning others, which is actually false. Recognizing that others are lost, and pointing it out to them, is not the same as judging or condemning them.

Think of it as a situation where a person is committing a crime (intentionally or not). We're pointing out that what they're doing is a crime. We're not the police, the judge, the jury or executioner, but we know the law well enough to recognize that what they're doing is wrong, and pointing it out them so they can mend their ways before they are judged.

the reality is reflected in your response to the accusation from one of your own faith--not a foreigner--that you are lost, and will die the sin unto death if you do not repent. It's pretty clear imo, that i am merely pointing this out to you, so that you can mend your ways. So, what is your response to this?

Iow please understand that i am making no accusations, except that you are going to hell if you don't change your mind. Purely as a thought experiment, an academic exercise, what is your response?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Matthew 25:31-46,



Salvation by works?

Who are the righteous here who get to go into life eternal, but the sheep mentioned above, separated onto the Son of Man's right hand, who by works of love, kindness, and condescension to the least of Christ's brethren, inherit the kingdom prepared for them since the foundation of the world?

If anybody does righteous things, and they are saved, it is because it was not self-righteousness earned through those works, but righteousness of God upon which these people relied. Jesus said without him we can do nothing.

I agree with John Gill:

such as are justified by the righteousness of Christ, and who, though they have done works of righteousness under the influence, and by the assistance of the grace of God, yet have not depended upon them, but upon Christ, for life and salvation: these shall go into heaven, the place appointed for them, to enjoy that eternal life in soul and body, which is the free gift of God, through Christ;

Adam Clarke.

Let it be farther remarked, that Christ does not say here that they have purchased the eternal life by these good deeds. No! for the power to work, and the means of working, came both from God. They first had redemption through his blood, and then his Spirit worked in them to will and to do. They were therefore only workers together with him, and could not be said, in any sense of the word, to purchase God’s glory, with his own property. But though God works in them, and by them, he does not obey for them. The works of piety and mercy They perform, under the influence and by the aid of his grace.

It's the only way all of this works in conjunction with everything else the New Testament taught.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by shazeep

the reality is reflected in your response to the accusation from one of your own faith--not a foreigner--that you are lost, and will die the sin unto death if you do not repent. It's pretty clear imo, that i am merely pointing this out to you, so that you can mend your ways. So, what is your response to this?

Iow please understand that i am making no accusations, except that you are going to hell if you don't change your mind. Purely as a thought experiment, an academic exercise, what is your response?

k now understand that your initial response here mirrors your...peers, i guess. An answer is not necessary because it is self evident. There is no planet on which "Go ahead and judge others, and don't judge yourselves" can be justified, unless you are in the OP Inquisition.

[shazeep]

and i guess i am bound to tell you that you drop the subject at your peril now too
have a nice evening

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Jito463

He's here to "judge and condemn us", all while complaining that we're judging and condemning others, which is actually false. Recognizing that others are lost, and pointing it out to them, is not the same as judging or condemning them.

Think of it as a situation where a person is committing a crime (intentionally or not). We're pointing out that what they're doing is a crime. We're not the police, the judge, the jury or executioner, but we know the law well enough to recognize that what they're doing is wrong, and pointing it out them so they can mend their ways before they are judged.

Excellent

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by shazeep

my apologies if you do not get that, i've reread it and can't find where it is unclear

You can't find? That's because you are the author of that mess. Hence the reason why there are editors. Individuals other than ourselves who review written material to see if it needs to be edited.

Originally Posted by shazeep

, maybe i'm speaking in tongues now or something?

No, maybe you are just posting more of the same muddled nonsense you usually post?

Originally Posted by shazeep

Which state do you imagine we are in, the one where i cannot exegete "judge yourselves, don't judge others"

Judge yourself don't judge others? Is that from the Dancing Bear Haight Ashbury Bible according to shazeep?

Originally Posted by shazeep

or the one where i cannot demonstrate that it is happening here?

Yes, it happens all the time, and you have judged us and condemned us and pronounced a curse upon our heads. Now don't you feel much better?

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by shazeep

the reality is reflected in your response to the accusation from one of your own faith--not a foreigner--that you are lost, and will die the sin unto death if you do not repent. It's pretty clear imo, that i am merely pointing this out to you, so that you can mend your ways. So, what is your response to this?

Iow please understand that i am making no accusations, except that you are going to hell if you don't change your mind. Purely as a thought experiment, an academic exercise, what is your response?

I know I'm going to regret this, considering how long I've had you on ignore, but, oh well; into the lions den I go.

I would say, show me in the Scripture.

What you fail to understand, is that someone solid in their faith - who already truly believes they're saved - will not be offended (unless the "accuser" is acting offensively). It's only people whose faith is wavering, that are not secure in their salvation (or at least the belief thereof), who would be offended by such a statement.

Which says a lot more about you and your responses to us, than it does about us.

[shazeep]

that's fine, but at the least you would be dismissive--while obviously not stating what represents most people who hold that judgement of others is ok, almost surely--and the point still remains that if you believe and teach that "Everyone is lost but us" you are abandoning "Judge yourselves, do not judge others."

[Jito463]

Originally Posted by shazeep

that's fine, but at the least you would be dismissive--while obviously not stating what represents most people who hold that judgement of others is ok, almost surely--and the point still remains that if you believe and teach that "Everyone is lost but us" you are abandoning "Judge yourselves, do not judge others."

*sigh*

No, we teach that everyone is lost who doesn't follow the Bible's teaching for salvation. Loving your neighbor and loving God is important, but it doesn't save you. How many times must we repeat this, to get it through to you?