One of the Biggest Mistakes

[bkstokes]

Keith

Paul wrote

Romans 12:14

14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

[ILG]

This is where your heart is, ILG. What I am reading is that the whole organization let you down, when it was the people in your circle. I don't see you focusing on victory, but your pain. I guess I just don't get it. I hope that doesn't offend you. I seriously and honestly do not want to hurt or offend you. I think the whole conversation interests me in that in every way and on every occasion God has rescued me and I don't have to focus on what hurt me, but how God brought me out. I just don't see how what you are saying is actually helping anyone. It only causes me to see the pain.

This thread is partially about what brought me out. Knowing that church is just church and that you don't have to do everything the pastor says has brought me healing.

What am I missing? I really want to understand, ILG. Is it a personality difference?

I know a pastor (UPCI) that went broke trying to keep his church floating financially. He turned in his license because he couldn't afford to pay the fee. When he wanted to get his license back, after he got on his feet financially, the district he was in was like - "No can do. You're credit is shot." LOL! WUT?!!

Another District saw how ridiculous that was and got him his license back. Now, God is blessing and he is being used of God to heal a broken and hurt church.

He said he was hurt, but knows that God is greater and he still loves many elements of the organization. You see? He didn't have to leave. He just allowed God to take his situation and turn it around for his good. Was it his faith or was it just the Will of God for his life?

Since you say you really want to understand (verses want to use my answers to bash me) I will respond. We pastored in two districts....same problems....same issues. I have posted on forums since 1996 and....same problems...same issues. I believe that it was the will of God for my life to leave the UPC. People who think people are never called to leave the UPC will never understand that, I suppose. (Not saying you are one.) So, people who say I left because of hurts are mistaken. I was terribly hurt in the UPC. But that is not why I left. If I left only because of hurts I would be sorely disaapointed if I was hoping for a utopia elsewhere, because none exists. So, I think when I write on a topic like this one, people get confused maybe about what I am saying or what I am doing. I left because of legalism. I believe people can be UPC and not be legalistic, but I believe it is difficult although not imposible to do so.

[ILG]

!. Don't Rehearse it

2. Don't nurse it

3. Don't curse it

Then let's stop talking about me and talk about how people should sometimes spend less time in church and more time with family.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by ILG

This thread is partially about what brought me out. Knowing that church is just church and that you don't have to do everything the pastor says has brought me healing.



Since you say you really want to understand (verses want to use my answers to bash me) I will respond. We pastored in two districts....same problems....same issues. I have posted on forums since 1996 and....same problems...same issues. I believe that it was the will of God for my life to leave the UPC. People who think people are never called to leave the UPC will never understand that, I suppose. (Not saying you are one.) So, people who say I left because of hurts are mistaken. I was terribly hurt in the UPC. But that is not why I left. If I left only because of hurts I would be sorely disaapointed if I was hoping for a utopia elsewhere, because none exists. So, I think when I write on a topic like this one, people get confused maybe about what I am saying or what I am doing. I left because of legalism. I believe people can be UPC and not be legalistic, but I believe it is difficult although not imposible to do so.

Thanks for your response, ILG. I can't get into a discussion on the aspect of your thoughts on legalism. My mind is too cluttered with other issues today.

I'll put my thoughts together, if I can, and respond at some other point. At the outset, I'm thinking it's such a personal issue, it would be hard to discuss anyway and very laborious to even attempt. I don't want to exhaust myself on something that gets me nowhere. We have differing views on this Forum, and I respect them, which won't come together any time soon.

God Bless!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by keith4him

This is for ILG,
Taken from a Message on Forgiveness and Holding Oughts against people. This was the conclusion about how we overcome offenses.

How to escape the trap of offence and unforgiveness?
1. Surrender past hurts to the Holy Spirit

2. Let your expectations (ought’s) rest in God alone, the source of many offences is unreasonable expectations. Are you looking to others to complete you or Jesus Christ? Jesus said that people will let us down (Luke 17:1) Circumstances will not go our way, John the Baptist (Luke 7:18) Sometimes God doesn’t answer prayer that way we want him to (Matt. 27:46)

3. Realize that God has allowed offences to change us.
Jeremiah 48:11 “Moab has been at ease from his[a] youth;
He has settled on his dregs,
And has not been emptied from vessel to vessel,
Nor has he gone into captivity.
Therefore his taste remained in him,
And his scent has not changed.

When someone offends you, don’t nurse it, don’t rehearse it, don’t curse it, don't disperse it, and God will in time reverse it!

Keith,

Thanks but....I didn't start this thread talking about me. It seems like somehow it's easier for some people to talk about me and my hurts than to focus on the fact that many, many UPC churches teach too much about service and not enough about family which is supposed to be the focus of this thread. I have went ahead and talked about some of my pain here, but the focus of the thread was and is supposed to be on pastors who teach wrong things about church service. Yes, I was hurt by that but I wasn't writing to nurse all that. I was writing so some people can face the fact that this is a problem.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Thanks for your response, ILG. I can't get into a discussion on the aspect of your thoughts on legalism. My mind is too cluttered with other issues today.

I'll put my thoughts together, if I can, and respond at some other point. At the outset, I'm thinking it's such a personal issue, it would be hard to discuss anyway and very laborious to even attempt. I don't want to exhaust myself on something that gets me nowhere. We have differing views on this Forum, and I respect them, which won't come together any time soon.

God Bless!

I respect your views too, PO.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by ILG

Then let's stop talking about me and talk about how people should sometimes spend less time in church and more time with family.

Lets stop talking about you?? You've been talking about yourself and your experiences, hurts, your past ( which is okay) and now you don't want anyone to address it?

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by ILG

Keith,

Thanks but....I didn't start this thread talking about me. It seems like somehow it's easier for some people to talk about me and my hurts than to focus on the fact that many, many UPC churches teach too much about service and not enough about family which is supposed to be the focus of this thread. I have went ahead and talked about some of my pain here, but the focus of the thread was and is supposed to be on pastors who teach wrong things about church service. Yes, I was hurt by that but I wasn't writing to nurse all that. I was writing so some people can face the fact that this is a problem.

I disagree, this is about you. Your bothered by something the church emphasied. So it is about you and your response to something in your life past, present or future.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Keith

Paul wrote

Romans 12:14

14Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

Not sure if your adding or challenging me, I don't believe in cursing unless the Holy Spirit directs me to curse a work of satan.

[ILG]

I started responding to a certain post and then figured that I would just respond generically.

This whole thread is wierd to me. I wrote about UPC pastors who preach too much church and not enough on family. Then, a number of people say it's all about me....but many here are posting concurring that they too, have had these same types of experiences with UPC preachers and doctrines. Yes, I have had hurt, but I didn't start this thread talking about my pain. I end up talking about it because people start saying "You have pain" and suddenly my pain becomes the problem rather than the real issue that I wrote about. It seems to me that people are saying "Well, yes, the pastors do sometimes bash people on the head with a baseball bat, but I just pray through and forget about it!" My solution is that we really don't need to subject ourselves to that baseball hit in the first place. Then, people say "ILG got hit in the head with a baseball bat just like me, but I submitted and she is saying that you don't have to!" Well, yeah, that is the difference. And some have never been hit with that baseball bat and I'm happy for them, not mad about it like some people seem to think!

Bottom line is, the guy with the baseball bat needs to stop hitting. If I nurse the crack on my skull, I think that's a pretty good thing.

And then, if I come on years later saying that I got hit with a baseball bat, nursed my wound, and left the place that cracked me and wouldn't quit, more power to me, I say.

Okay, I am angry now, I better just get off of here for a while.