Nate Wilson...The Rock Church Sign Team....Beautiful!!!

[Threads]

Originally Posted by KarenJo

Good point...it's interesting that his web-site is very progressive which is why I am surprised that he is on the Tulsa List....

Good Catch! I have the same questions. They are very progressive and have many programs. They are on abnglobal with they're conference. What is interesting is they will be no different than UPC. They are against the TV thing, but yet you see them, theyre saints plastered all over the internet. I could never understand a preacher that was anti video, but had no problem preaching at places that allowed it. The typical excuse is, well, I didn't know or I have no control over it. So this whole group split really dosn't make any since because your not going to get anything different. that's for sure.

[Sister Alvear]

That was beautiful...I started weeping and talking in tongues...thank you...

[IBCrazier2]

I would like to know, when doing a sign song, when does it go from worship to putting on a show? I can remember, out of the 20 years of being at the church I am at, haveing deaf people attend our church maybe 10 times! With that being said we have people do sign songs, have sign choirs, etc..... every couple of weeks it seems. I will say at times it can be moving and when from the heart and as worship it can be wonderful, but what is the purpose if it is not for worship or ministry?

[Tina]

Originally Posted by IBCrazier2

I would like to know, when doing a sign song, when does it go from worship to putting on a show? I can remember, out of the 20 years of being at the church I am at, haveing deaf people attend our church maybe 10 times! With that being said we have people do sign songs, have sign choirs, etc..... every couple of weeks it seems. I will say at times it can be moving and when from the heart and as worship it can be wonderful, but what is the purpose if it is not for worship or ministry?

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

[Monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Tina

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

There is NOTHING wrong with dance, it is biblical...and that is just what dancing is, a show, for God. Remember that.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Tina

I've noticed that many of the groups I've seen do this aren't even using "signs". They are using motions to the music. They have a few of the words matched up with the right signs in this one-- but most of it is just as CC1 called it.. Dancing... movement to the music.

Nice song... but it bothers me that a lot of these groups say it's "signing" when they aren't even using "signs" that a deaf person would be able to recognize as a word.

I don't know all of the words yet myself, but both my daughters have learned signing as a method to communicate with a friend from another church who is deaf--and they have taught me some of it. My oldest daughter does do interpretation for the deaf when someone attends services who needs it. While watching this video, my youngest daughter said "Mom, most of that isn't ASL signing-- most of it is just moves they've made up to go with the music."

If they are using this as a "ministry" for the deaf-- they need to use the right signs. Otherwise, it's just putting on a show. JMHO.

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

[Tina]

Originally Posted by CC1

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

[IBCrazier2]

Sorry Tina .... didn't mean to get you in trouble

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by CC1

Why if they are doing it to bless people other than the deaf it is just "putting on a show"?

That is the kind of logic people use to say people should not practice singing or playing instruments because if you are good it is just a "show". Arghhh!!!

There are many ways to worship and lift up Jesus. Dance...er....signing is one of them. Why deny there can be power and beauty in things done with unity and syncrhonization? It is just denying reality. This is the same trap that keeps many Pentecostals from enjoying the blessing and power from reciting a common creed or a printed prayer for a group to speak together. They are so worried about being Roman Catholic or caught up in "tradition" that they miss blessings.

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

I agree with both posts, and have seen both in live service...signing with a song and interpretative 'signing'.

With both, as with everything we do for Kingdom sake, it is the anointing which makes the difference.

The group from my church does the ASL signing and it is very effective...

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Tina

I knew that was going to come across wrong. LOL

Monkeyman, No, there's nothing wrong with dance-- if one is dancing as unto the Lord. Have you not ever seen people who put on a dance for "show"?

You can tell the difference when something is done as a form of worship-- or when it's done for show. At least I can. I've been very blessed by some signing groups (or around here, they are called drama teams) The difference is made by if the team has been to the prayer room before getting up there. Some are annointed worship. Others are just show.

Now I'm going to back out of the thread before I start a war for stating my thoughts. I need to be cooking supper anyway.

You warmed my heart by letting me know that some good man is about to eat a good homecooked meal!

I am patiently waiting for my daughter and her husband to come visit tonight. She is cooking me a meal she cooked for the first time last week and it was one of the best meals I have ever eaten in my life hands down. Including expensive restaurants! The scary thing is that she "winged it" from a recipe she saw on TV and we are not sure she can recreate it. We will find out tonight.