God is All Knowing So Why Does it Matter? - Page 2

jtork · #1 12-29-2008, 09:51 AM

Well the others around him will probably never find out anyway - they are probably too busy watching the same stuff on the internet

rgcraig · #2 12-29-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtork

Well the others around him will probably never find out anyway - they are probably too busy watching the same stuff on the internet

LOL - - good point - another thread perhaps!

HeavenlyOne · #3 12-29-2008, 10:01 AM

God judges from our inside.

We judge one another from our outside.

I was speaking to a friend of mine just last night about how different standards is preached today than it was 100 years ago.

If the UPC existed in 1900, how would they have preached holiness and separation in dress, considering that most of America in that age and time dressed the same among the sexes? Even the harlots in the saloons had long hair and dresses on!

We need to get back to the basics of what's important. Dress and hair isn't what's important as to a person's salvation. If we let God worry about issues only He should be worried about, how much larger would our churches be? How much happier of a people would we be to the sinners in our society? How much witnessing would actually have to be done if we just allowed our lights to shine instead of beating people with our flashlights?

RRH just preached at some convention with DKB recently. My friend is disturbed and thinking that her pastor is going to endorse the magic hair teachings, which she refuses to believe. Is this what the UPC is going to be all about now? Is this what the old-time Azuza revival hoped for 100 years later?

I hope not. The UPC is raising a generation of Pharisees...people who think that what they look like and how loud they pray is what makes them holy...and the kids are buying it.

God help us.

StMark · #4 12-29-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

God judges from our inside.

We judge one another from our outside.

I was speaking to a friend of mine just last night about how different standards is preached today than it was 100 years ago.

If the UPC existed in 1900, how would they have preached holiness and separation in dress, considering that most of America in that age and time dressed the same among the sexes? Even the harlots in the saloons had long hair and dresses on!

We need to get back to the basics of what's important. Dress and hair isn't what's important as to a person's salvation. If we let God worry about issues only He should be worried about, how much larger would our churches be? How much happier of a people would we be to the sinners in our society? How much witnessing would actually have to be done if we just allowed our lights to shine instead of beating people with our flashlights?

RRH just preached at some convention with DKB recently. My friend is disturbed and thinking that her pastor is going to endorse the magic hair teachings, which she refuses to believe. Is this what the UPC is going to be all about now? Is this what the old-time Azuza revival hoped for 100 years later?

I hope not. The UPC is raising a generation of Pharisees...people who think that what they look like and how loud they pray is what makes them holy...and the kids are buying it.
God help us.

That was not very nice.....rather judgmental HO

HeavenlyOne · #5 12-29-2008, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

That was not very nice.....rather judgmental HO

You are right, Mark. But it's what I see. My kids are in this, and I'm trying very hard to make sure they don't buy into what they are being sold.

I'm raising them to live according to what the Bible teaches, not what an organization teaches.

Obeying an org doesn't save us. Obeying the Bible, does.

The Pharisees weren't self-righteous because of what they wore or how they prayed. It was their belief that what they wore and how they prayed is what made them better than everyone else that was wrong.

Jesus never rebuked them for having nice, long robes and praying in public. He rebuked them for their belief that those things made them holier than everyone else.

I think that's telling. Very telling.

The UPC preaches "holiness standards", mirroring the beliefs of the Pharisees. Is it wrong to teach women to dress more modest or teaching people to pray? No. But it is wrong to teach them that by doing those things, they are 'holiness'. Jesus rebukes such teaching.

StMark · #6 12-29-2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You are right, Mark. But it's what I see. My kids are in this, and I'm trying very hard to make sure they don't buy into what they are being sold.

I'm raising them to live according to what the Bible teaches, not what an organization teaches.

Obeying an org doesn't save us. Obeying the Bible, does.

The Pharisees weren't self-righteous because of what they wore or how they prayed. It was their belief that what they wore and how they prayed is what made them better than everyone else that was wrong.

Jesus never rebuked them for having nice, long robes and praying in public. He rebuked them for their belief that those things made them holier than everyone else.

I think that's telling. Very telling.

The UPC preaches "holiness standards", mirroring the beliefs of the Pharisees. Is it wrong to teach women to dress more modest or teaching people to pray? No. But it is wrong to teach them that by doing those things, they are 'holiness'. Jesus rebukes such teaching.

Joy,

Let's ask ourselves this. What are the fruits of the churches that have left all the rules, no guidelines, just do as you please, and compare it to the churches that have maintained some disciplines.
Are they drawing closer to the Lord? Are they more spiritual than our pioneers? What does people who we KNOW that really have had a TRUE walk with God have to say about everyone becoming a law unto themselves such as Nona Freeman, TW Barnes, Billy Cole, and others who we know walked the talk.
I'm not focusing on JUST do's and don'ts. I realize that there will ALWAYS be those who just keeps laws on the outside and not have those laws written in their hearts, but I do think that everyone who walked close to God had an obedient spirit

HeavenlyOne · #7 12-29-2008, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

Joy,

Let's ask ourselves this. What are the fruits of the churches that have left all the rules, no guidelines, just do as you please, and compare it to the churches that have maintained some disciplines.
Are they drawing closer to the Lord? Are they more spiritual than our pioneers? What does people who we KNOW that really have had a TRUE walk with God have to say about everyone becoming a law unto themselves such as Nona Freeman, TW Barnes, Billy Cole, and others who we know walked the talk.
I'm not focusing on JUST do's and don'ts. I realize that there will ALWAYS be those who just keeps laws on the outside and not have those laws written in their hearts, but I do think that everyone who walked close to God had an obedient spirit

Mark, the complete opposite isn't the answer to the problem. Living with no rules or guidelines even for the unchurched is a bad way to live. That's why our world is like it is now.

Truthseeker · #8 12-30-2008, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StMark

Joy,

Let's ask ourselves this. What are the fruits of the churches that have left all the rules, no guidelines, just do as you please, and compare it to the churches that have maintained some disciplines.
Are they drawing closer to the Lord? Are they more spiritual than our pioneers? What does people who we KNOW that really have had a TRUE walk with God have to say about everyone becoming a law unto themselves such as Nona Freeman, TW Barnes, Billy Cole, and others who we know walked the talk.
I'm not focusing on JUST do's and don'ts. I realize that there will ALWAYS be those who just keeps laws on the outside and not have those laws written in their hearts, but I do think that everyone who walked close to God had an obedient spirit

For the record, TW Barnes allowed tv and sports. Back to your regular programming

He's My Friend · #9 12-29-2008, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

......................................

I hope not. The UPC is raising a generation of Pharisees...people who think that what they look like and how loud they pray is what makes them holy...and the kids are buying it.

God help us.

Not coming against you H One, but I do not think so.

The UPC is not raising my children, nor did they raise the generation before mine, and on and on.

It is up to us as parents to raise our children as God requires.
I do not leave it up to the pastor or youth leader to tell my children about the basics or the more deep things in the word.

We cannot blame an organization on what people are becoming.

HeavenlyOne · #10 12-29-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by He's My Friend

Not coming against you H One, but I do not think so.

The UPC is not raising my children, nor did they raise the generation before mine, and on and on.

It is up to us as parents to raise our children as God requires.
I do not leave it up to the pastor or youth leader to tell my children about the basics or the more deep things in the word.

We cannot blame an organization on what people are becoming.

My friend, MySpace and Facebook is full of blogs of young girls who speak about the power in their hair and such like. My son is educating young people at his UPC church about how their dress doesn't make them holy. So far, he's outnumbered.

Since my mom believed the UPC and it's tenets, then yes, they raised me because she allowed it. I was raised with a lot of young people who's parents did the same.

But I'm with you in that I personally am not allowing the UPC to raise my kids. I raise them with Biblical beliefs. If they come home with something the church teaches, I tell them to go to the Bible and see if the Bible agrees.