TRFrance: Micah 5:2

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am not sure.

I only determined to prove the pre-existence of Jesus Christ in form of more than a "thought" of God.

This scripture gives me the impression that Jesus Christ existed before Bethlehem, in form of more than a thought.

Jermyn, be careful.

You are entering into this study with a predetermined mindset. Your wording of this post is that you have already came to a conclusion, you are just looking for supporting verses.

TJJJ

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by edjen01

the word eternal means...without beginning or ending...so how can something be eternal and everlasting and yet have a literal origin? both cannot be true.

It can be with GOD-- all things are possible.

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

There are countless other scriptures I can quote where Jesus declares His Divinity.

But since when is DIVINITY "born"-- if it is born, can it die?

Jesus' origins ARE from of old, HE IS the Ancient of Days. He is the First and the Last Son of the Living God.


"Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given"
When Jesus was born, the Father "gave" His Son to us. But the One whose "origins are of old" was/is the Son of God before the child was born.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

It can be with GOD-- all things are possible.

"Before Abraham was, I AM."

There are countless other scriptures I can quote where Jesus declares His Divinity.

But since when is DIVINITY "born"-- if it is born, can it die?

Jesus' origins ARE from of old, HE IS the Ancient of Days. He is the First and the Last Son of the Living God.


"Unto us a child is born, unto us a Son is given"
When Jesus was born, the Father "gave" His Son to us. But the One whose "origins are of old" was/is the Son of God before the child was born.

right...but thats like asking if God can make a rock to big for him to pick up!!


i have no issue believing that Jesus was/is God.

I'm trying to understand what form you are talking about. the human form of the man Jesus called the Christ was born in Bethlehem...and was not eternal...hence John 3:16...the begotten Son...to be begotten you need to have a beginning...and to have a beginning means that one cannot be eternal.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Jermyn, be careful.

You are entering into this study with a predetermined mindset. Your wording of this post is that you have already came to a conclusion, you are just looking for supporting verses.

TJJJ

Thank you. But that was the challenge from the beginning.

It was my gut feeling that Jesus, The Son of the Living God pre-existed before Bethlehem and TRFrance originally gave me the task to support my stance with scripture.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Thank you. But that was the challenge from the beginning.

It was my gut feeling that Jesus, The Son of the Living God pre-existed before Bethlehem and TRFrance originally gave me the task to support my stance with scripture.

Okay,

Explain this then.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

What we must explain is, what does THE SON mean?

Luke wrote that the SON was the thing to be born. You are saying that the SON pre-existed the incarnation.

Do you believe that the SON is referencing the flesh?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by edjen01

right...but thats like asking if God can make a rock to big for him to pick up!!


i have no issue believing that Jesus was/is God.

I'm trying to understand what form you are talking about. the human form of the man Jesus called the Christ was born in Bethlehem...and was not eternal...hence John 3:16...the begotten Son...to be begotten you need to have a beginning...and to have a beginning means that one cannot be eternal.

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Okay,

Explain this then.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

What we must explain is, what does THE SON mean?

Luke wrote that the SON was the thing to be born. You are saying that the SON pre-existed the incarnation.

Do you believe that the SON is referencing the flesh?

I am saying that the SON pre-existed the incarnation-- I think Micah 5:2 refers to this.

I freely admit I can be wrong and will reverse myself if necessary.
I don't think that is necessary at this point.

If Jesus did not pre-exist, what glory did He share with the Father and HOW did He share it? St. John 17:5


I think a lot of folks refuse to take my position because it lends itself to the trinitarian view of God a bit more easily-- a view I do not hold.

I simply choose to believe all the scriptures in what they say about our GOD and Savior-- Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

[edjen01]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

I am saying that the SON pre-existed the incarnation-- I think Micah 5:2 refers to this.

I frely admit I can be wrong and will reverse myself if necessary.
I don't think that is necessary at this point.

If Jesus did not pre-exist, what glory did He share with the Father and HOW did He share it? St. John 17:5
the same way the Word exsisted with God, was God, and then became flesh.(John 1). The Word did not become the man Jesus called the Christ until he was born to Mary. So as the Word...the Son was with God before time began...but as the fleshly, human man Jesus...he could not.

I think a lot of folks refuse to take my position because it lends itself to the trinitarian view of God a bit more easily-- a view I do not hold.
I have no problem with the way trinitarians view God....they view Him as One. I usually disagree with them when it comes to thier definitions of the Son of God.

I simply choose to believe all the scriptures in what they say about our GOD and Savior-- Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God.

.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by edjen01

.

So did the Word of God have a sense of self or awareness, in your view of the Son of God?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So did the Word of God have a sense of self or awareness, in your view of the Son of God?

Does anyone think that the Word of God had a sense of self awareness before Bethlehem?

If so, how do you explain or describe it?

If not, why not, in light of St. John 17:5?




And TRFrance, where are you??? I miss you man!!

[Sam]

So it's Politically Correct to say that Jesus existed separate from the Father as the Word prior to His birth at Bethlehem but wrong to say He existed separate from the Father as the Son prior to His birth at Bethlehem.