I wonder if some old pentecostals mistakenly heard a message on this and "worshipped" until they took their clothes off. No lie, my grandmother once told me when she was small her and a couple of friends peeked inside the window of a pentecostal church and the people were running around taking their clothes off.
I was shocked to hear such a thing, and wouldn't believe it had most anyone else told me such a thing. It was such a stumbling block for her, that she absolutely did not want anything to do with becoming pentecostal. She has since died, and I am concerned for her soul.
(background info: I was born again at age 18 after leaving home, none of my family attended church much, or served God. So thereafter I aggressively tried to convert them, which is when the above conversation took place.)
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"Resolved: That all men should live to the glory of God. Resolved, secondly: That whether or not anyone else does, I will." ~Jonathan Edwards
"The only man who has the right to say he is justified by grace alone is the man who has left all to follow Christ." ~Dietrich Bonheoffer, The Cost of Discipleship
"Preachers who should be fishing for men are now too often fishing for compliments from men." ~Leonard Ravenhill
Jason reminded me of a time in a pentecostal church that a sinner had started coming to church off and on. One night he made his way to the altar, and some of the brethren, of course, gathered around to pray with him. As they prayed and shouted with him, he began shouting, too. They were all standing around him and began jumping up and down, and he started jumping up and down with them with a huge smile on his face. Suddenly he reached down and started undoing his belt and pants, and they realized he was a homosexual (with some mental problems, too, I think) and was taking advantage of a situation where all the men were around him.
Needless to say the antics stopped quite quickly.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
1Ch 15:27 David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, as also were all the Levites who were carrying the ark, and the singers and Chenaniah the leader of the music of the singers. And David wore a linen ephod.
Probably the unclothed part is these priestly garments were light, like dresses. David was dacing and it was probalby flapping upwards.
Though the word used there could simply mean to reveal
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
1Ch 15:27 David was clothed with a robe of fine linen, as also were all the Levites who were carrying the ark, and the singers and Chenaniah the leader of the music of the singers. And David wore a linen ephod.
Probably the unclothed part is these priestly garments were light, like dresses. David was dacing and it was probalby flapping upwards.
Though the word used there could simply mean to reveal
Where does the idea come from that it was revealing, though? I can only see Michal's words as a basis for that since she said he was uncovered.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
1) to uncover, remove
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to uncover
1a2) to remove, depart
1a3) to go into exile
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) (reflexive)
1b1a) to uncover oneself
1b1b) to discover or show oneself
1b1c) to reveal himself (of God)
1b2) (passive)
1b2a) to be uncovered
1b2b) to be disclosed, be discovered
1b2c) to be revealed
1b3) to be removed
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to uncover (nakedness)
1c1a) nakedness
1c1b) general
1c2) to disclose, discover, lay bare
1c3) to make known, show, reveal
1d) (Pual) to be uncovered
1e) (Hiphil) to carry away into exile, take into exile
1f) (Hophal) to be taken into exile
1g) (Hithpael)
1g1) to be uncovered
1g2) to reveal oneself
The connotation is to be revealed in the sense of uncovered or layed bare, revealed, discovered.
Nowhere is Michal rebuked for lying about David... in fact it is implied that what she said was true, however her mocking attitude brought God's judgment upon her and she was barren from that day forward.
A while back I told someone that David reminded me of President Bill Clinton in the way he liked the ladies. The person that I told that to disagreed and was a little offended about the way I looked at David, the man after God's own heart. I didn't see it as a problem. I believe David really did love the Lord and had an intimate relationship with Him but he just couldn't keep his hands off the ladies. He's certainly not the first preacher or man of God with that problem.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
A while back I told someone that David reminded me of President Bill Clinton in the way he liked the ladies. The person that I told that to disagreed and was a little offended about the way I looked at David, the man after God's own heart. I didn't see it as a problem. I believe David really did love the Lord and had an intimate relationship with Him but he just couldn't keep his hands off the ladies. He's certainly not the first preacher or man of God with that problem.
Yep.
And anyway, so what if he did dance naked in front of the people? Would that have been wrong? A sin? Where's the no-nakedness commandment, anyway?
(Not advocating public nudity. I'm just sayin'. As usual. )
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
My personal opinion is that when he was accused by his wife of "uncovering" himself it was her way of saying that he had taken off his royal robes and dressed and acted like any "common person."
But, maybe in his exuberance David did "expose" himself. I'm sure there were several ladies in the crowd that enjoyed the view and, knowing David's reputation, some didn't see anything they hadn't seen before.
And anyway, so what if he did dance naked in front of the people? Would that have been wrong? A sin? Where's the no-nakedness commandment, anyway?
(Not advocating public nudity. I'm just sayin'. As usual. )
I think it would have been immodest, yes. It certainly wouldn't have been in keeping with Jewish culture.
But, more to the point, I think the Bible clarifies it's accounts pretty well (such as with Peter), and if David had been entirely naked, it would have said so. JMO!!!!
Look at the shame that was inferred upon Ham when he saw his naked, drunken father in the tent...and yet dancing naked on the streets with women(and probably children) watching would have been acceptable to the Lord? I doubt it. (That story also clarifies that Noah was naked.)
Anyway, the story about David states that he was girded with a linen ephod. It is possible that he wore it around his waist, since "girded" means "as a belt; armor", and "ephod" means a "girdle; specifically the...high priest's shoulder piece."
Also, that might fit in the context of what Michal said, when she accused him of uncovering himself as one of the "vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself." The picture that comes to my mind is a young man taking his shirt off.
Since the scripture does say that he was wearing something, then I'm going to agree with it, and say he was not entirely naked. BUT, it's possible he was flashing some skin. I just doubt he was flashing his white and shiny hiney.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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Hybrid Mode
