So did Jesus really take upon the penalty...

[Michael The Disciple]

The doctrine of annihilation is NOT that when you die thats it. The wicked will be raised at the judgment. They will be cast into the lake of fire. Eventually they will die the SECOND DEATH.

They will cease to exist. As Yeshua, Peter, and Jude said. Death is nothingness. It is darkness.

Note the following:

11: And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt. 8:11-12

17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 2 Peter 2:17

13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Jude 13

The soul that sinneth shall die. The wages of sin is death. Whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH but have eternal life.

[jfrog]

Or maybe your concept of God and justice is wrong instead of the concept of substutionary atonement...

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

No. If they were then Jesus wouldn't have had to die.

Huh? Leviticus 4:31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Huh? Leviticus 4:31 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat is taken away from off the sacrifice of peace offerings; and the priest shall burn it upon the altar for a sweet savour unto the LORD; and the priest shall make an atonement for him, and it shall be forgiven him.

That forgiveness was supposedly contingent on Christ's sacrifice... You should have known that Timmy!

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by jfrog

That forgiveness was supposedly contingent on Christ's sacrifice... You should have known that Timmy!

Does it actually say that, anywhere?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Does it actually say that, anywhere?

Of course not... you can't expect it to spell out every little thing for ya

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Of course not... you can't expect it to spell out every little thing for ya

[Timmy]

BTW, I posted something in the blog room a while back that may help:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...221#post809221

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Or maybe your concept of God and justice is wrong instead of the concept of substutionary atonement...

HEy I am just putting out what others stated. It's not my belief.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

The doctrine of annihilation is NOT that when you die thats it. The wicked will be raised at the judgment. They will be cast into the lake of fire. Eventually they will die the SECOND DEATH.

They will cease to exist. As Yeshua, Peter, and Jude said. Death is nothingness. It is darkness.

Note the following:

11: And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12: But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matt. 8:11-12

17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 2 Peter 2:17

13: Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. Jude 13

The soul that sinneth shall die. The wages of sin is death. Whosoever believes in him shall not PERISH but have eternal life.

I know what the second death is was just pointing to those that believe punishment would end.