Did you even read the link? I think your scratching the surface (picking up on the hyperbole). Read the link and let's chat.
No. I don't see why I need to. It's clearly a hyperbole. Jesus used several oratory devices. He was a preacher. He used parables. He used hyperboles. Its really not that complex
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
My point is, well what I have been saying, the word cult has become so convoluted as to what it means.
People keep adding to the word, what a cult is. It's completely subject to the whims of whoever is making their list of things that defines a cult.
It's all about audience relevance. Cult originally meant a religious gathering but today since there are so many the word is taking on a new meaning for it's present time...
No. I don't see why I need to. It's clearly a hyperbole. Jesus used several oratory devices. He was a preacher. He used parables. He used hyperboles. Its really not that complex
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Any group that perverts parts of or the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that the leader eventually becomes god like, or replaces Jesus Christ. That is how I think religious cults are defined. Most use the same tactics to get their following to believe them.
There are other cults that have nothing to do with religion at all......Charles Manson and his followers as an example.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
We might all agree they are mind cults, or cults where in a good deal of mind control by a charismatic leader was used. Even then I don't need the word cult in order to describe such groups or warn people. If I said "they are a cult", what pops up into someone's mind when the word cult has no one specific meaning anymore or so many? If I said "well these pentecostals are a cult" those that don't know what was meant might think they are in a mind controlled group
I'm not afraid of the word, and I think the pejoratives are rightly earned I guess. And I don't know what Socialite has in mind, but I've seen my share of "mind control" groups.
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This is my point though. Who comes up with this stuff? Why is following a charismatic leader a bad thing? The term cult and it's so called definitions (there is no official source anymore) is so incredibly subjective. If we wanted to we can decide any one that believes in the Trinity is in a cult.
Can you be serious? You think it's okay for people to give their allegiance to charismatic personalities? How fast until you have kool-aid stains? Can you say "dangerous?" We could be subjective in our definitions. Then we'd discuss "why." I understand some use it as a form of "name-calling." So come up with another name that sums it up. I see nothing positive in what we refer to as "cults" today. I prefer to keep the same, negative word.
We might all agree they are mind cults, or cults where in a good deal of mind control by a charismatic leader was used. Even then I don't need the word cult in order to describe such groups or warn people. If I said "they are a cult", what pops up into someone's mind when the word cult has no one specific meaning anymore or so many? If I said "well these pentecostals are a cult" those that don't know what was meant might think they are in a mind controlled group
This is my point though. Who comes up with this stuff? Why is following a charismatic leader a bad thing? The term cult and it's so called definitions (there is no official source anymore) is so incredibly subjective. If we wanted to we can decide any one that believes in the Trinity is in a cult.
Ok. Well you just said "some called". I had no idea you meant "outside the bible" or "today"
But looking back, it only fits one persons addition to the word cult. Where did you get this list? I have seen a dozen lists out there on the web and they don't all agree. My point is, well what I have been saying, the word cult has become so convoluted as to what it means.
People keep adding to the word, what a cult is. It's completely subject to the whims of whoever is making their list of things that defines a cult.
Using the dictionary, here is the first def
a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
Etymologically cultus from latin means "worship" without any bad connocation
1617, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from Fr. culte, from L. cultus "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," pp. of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.
Where did you get this list from?
Here are the rest of the definitions from that same resource
an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3.the object of such devotion.
4.a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
5.Sociology . a group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols.
6.a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
7.the members of such a religion or sect.
8.any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
So let's not use the word because there are too many definitions? You are sure touchy about this word.
You pretend mind control groups don't exist in many Pentecostal circles. If that was the case, books of the abuse wouldn't fill bookshelves. You are actually defending the whole "all in one leader" idea?
There are dozens of definitions for many words we use. So we defined what context we were using for the word. It's pejorative, it refers to manipulative, exclusive groups. Am I hitting close to home to you or something?
No. I don't see why I need to. It's clearly a hyperbole. Jesus used several oratory devices. He was a preacher. He used parables. He used hyperboles. Its really not that complex
Just moving on and saying "it's hyperbole" misses the full weight of what Jesus was saying. If you think re-reading this 1st Century parable is as simple as determining the literary genre, then I think you have much to learn.
You may as well turn away from the Prodigal Son and say, "I get it, it's a parable" without investigating what that story could have meant to the audience when it was said. The land rights, the way inheritances worked, the running of the father, the killing of a fatted calf, the ring, etc... Without reading the parable in a 1st Century lens you miss so much! So obviously determining literary alone is not sufficient.
And, sorry, the whole "hate your mommy" scripture is not a parable! To say parables and hyperbole are automatically to be assumed is false. Try again.
It's all about audience relevance. Cult originally meant a religious gathering but today since there are so many the word is taking on a new meaning for it's present time...
Right, but unfortunately a lot of people are taking a lot of liberty in how to define it
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Any group that perverts parts of or the gospel of Jesus Christ. And that the leader eventually becomes god like, or replaces Jesus Christ. That is how I think religious cults are defined. Most use the same tactics to get their following to believe them.
There are other cults that have nothing to do with religion at all......Charles Manson and his followers as an example.
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