NOW, When Is Someone Saved? - Page 2

Jeffrey · #11 10-23-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Jeffery water and spirit baptism are acts of Grace. People are water baptized and God remits sin. Water baptism is a bible command like circumcision was for the old covenant. Spirit baptism is an act of Grace when God fills with his spirit. Where do you see commands of men adding to the work of grace by God?

Giving is an act of grace. Doing good works are acts of grace. Worship is an act of grace. Where does this end?

It's like God has just told the most incredible story ever. His own. He shows off. Like many, he delights in giving. Then, someone takes the mic and tries to make secondary remarks over top of his story. Qualifying it.

Telling someone they must speak in tongues to be saved is the greatest heresy, DM. No matter how much we consider Spirit baptism to be an act of Grace (and it is). But where did we first receive grace? Are we saved of ourselves, our the same as Abraham, by believing? What does it mean to believe? Can I believe without the Spirit?

Dedicated Mind · #12 10-23-2010, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Giving is an act of grace. Doing good works are acts of grace. Worship is an act of grace. Where does this end?

It's like God has just told the most incredible story ever. His own. He shows off. Like many, he delights in giving. Then, someone takes the mic and tries to make secondary remarks over top of his story. Qualifying it.

Telling someone they must speak in tongues to be saved is the greatest heresy, DM. No matter how much we consider Spirit baptism to be an act of Grace (and it is). But where did we first receive grace? Are we saved of ourselves, our the same as Abraham, by believing? What does it mean to believe? Can I believe without the Spirit?

Paul says in Romans 8, he that hath not the spirit of God is none of his. This is not man's commandment. It is a bible command. Or do you disagree with Paul also? Could Abraham be saved if he disobeyed circumcision?

Sam · #13 10-23-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

NOW, let's get away from DA's belief since he is not here to defend himself. When do YOU believe someone is saved? If 3 stepper's disagree with you, are they teaching false doctrine?

Is this addressed personally to NOW (Not Of Works) or was that first word supposed to just be "Now" as in one of the following definitions:

–adverb
1. at the present time or moment: You are now using a dictionary.
2. without further delay; immediately; at once: Either do it now or not at all.
3. at this time or juncture in some period under consideration or in some course of proceedings described: The case was now ready for the jury.
4. at the time or moment immediately past: I saw him just now on the street.
5. in these present times; nowadays: Now you rarely see horse-drawn carriages.
6. under the present or existing circumstances; as matters stand: I see now what you meant.
7. (used to introduce a statement or question): Now, you don't really mean that.
8. (used to strengthen a command, entreaty, or the like): Now stop that!

–conjunction
9. inasmuch as; since: Now you're here, why not stay for dinner?

–noun
10. the present time or moment: Up to now no one has volunteered.

–adjective
11. up-to-the-minute; encompassing the latest ideas, fads, or fashions: the now look; the now generation.

—Idioms
12. now and again, occasionally. Also, now and then.
13. now that, inasmuch as; since: Now that she is rich and famous, she is constantly being besieged by appeals for aid.

Sam · #14 10-23-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

You tell me; what is your response? Are heretics going to be saved?

What if a person's heart is right but his/her head is wrong?

Jeffrey · #15 10-23-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Paul says in Romans 8, he that hath not the spirit of God is none of his. This is not man's commandment. It is a bible command. Or do you disagree with Paul also? Could Abraham be saved if he disobeyed circumcision?

I, of course agree with Paul, as I do with John 3:5. I don't try to make the Pauline or Johannine perspective of the Spirit speak for Luke's.

The question is not "could Abram be saved if he did not." It was accounted to him as righteousness because he believed.... you are asking the wrong question. Could Abram been saved had he not believed?

Dedicated Mind · #16 10-23-2010, 04:42 PM

Sam, you are welcomed to comment. NOW has gone to bed with high blood pressure attacks.

Jeffery, circumcision was part of the old covenant and the bible says whosever was not circumcised had no part in the nation of Israel and the promises of God. So what would've happened if Abraham did not circumcise? He would have been cut off and lost. imo

Jeffrey · #17 10-23-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Paul says in Romans 8, he that hath not the spirit of God is none of his. This is not man's commandment. It is a bible command. Or do you disagree with Paul also? Could Abraham be saved if he disobeyed circumcision?

Highly recommend you checking out an old thread "Spirit and Salvation" or something like that. Especially clue in to Adino's remarks. I think you'd at least enjoy hearing the perspective more fleshed out. It's impossible for me (time-wise) to attempt to fully recreate that.

Jeffrey · #18 10-23-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

Sam, you are welcomed to comment. NOW has gone to bed with high blood pressure attacks.

Jeffery, circumcision was part of the old covenant and the bible says whosever was not circumcised had no part in the nation of Israel and the promises of God. So what would've happened if Abraham did not circumcise? He would have been cut off and lost. imo

Circumcision was an ordinance. A sign of God's promise to them.

This still is not the question. What effected God's saving Grace? #1 God initiated Grace, not Abram. #2 Abraham's believing (same as Romans 4) effected the power of God in Abram's life. I think Romans 4 will speak to the circumcision issue, as to whether there was a role in salvation for circumcision. Are you familiar?

Dedicated Mind · #19 10-23-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

I, of course agree with Paul, as I do with John 3:5. I don't try to make the Pauline or Johannine perspective of the Spirit speak for Luke's.

The question is not "could Abram be saved if he did not." It was accounted to him as righteousness because he believed.... you are asking the wrong question. Could Abram been saved had he not believed?

are you saying luke teaches a different perspective? what does luke teach?