Not Meant to Die and go to Heaven

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Where is one word about leaving earth forever one day? Not there.


Matthew 6:9-10 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. (10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.


While we are praying to get earth out of here into heaven, God is telling us to pray for Heaven to come to earth! How? His Kingdom is extended into the physical realm from the heavenly realm through mankind.

The principle all through the NT is that we must see that which is in heaven projected into the earth. We find this concept in our need to be led of the Spirit and not our flesh.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

His Spirit is meant to empower us.

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Why? To see the will of God DONE IN EARTH in the physical realm.

Stop and think about it. Where does the bible explicitly state we are meant to go to heaven and leave this earth forever? It talks about entering Life and it talks about inheriting the Kingdom. But where? In Heaven? No! It's a tradition that is not there.

Yes we die today and go to heaven, but only temporarily.

It's interesting. But reading your book left some interesting options open too.

So... we go to heaven until the day mans dominion on the earth is restored is what you are saying?

Do you have any thoughts on references in scripture that would give an expected timeline? Could be near? Must be near? Probably isn't for centuries?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

It's interesting. But reading your book left some interesting options open too.

So... we go to heaven until the day mans dominion on the earth is restored is what you are saying?

Well, sorta. I believe we are, first of all, to do much more right now than waiting to go to Heaven to experience the resurrection and reconvene dominion. I believe much of dominion is something we can enjoy now. Jesus said REPENT THE KINGDOM HAS ARRIVED.

REPENT means more than asking forgiveness. It means CHANGE YOUR ENTIRE THINKING AROUND. Hooboy! When you think THIS way, we REALLY DO need t=o change our thinking all around!

Renew your mind and be transformed. There is so much more for us in the here and now than the teaching of seeking a departure to heaven has made us aware of. And so we dominate now and spiritually subdue things in life, and then when we die and go to glory, we await the resurrection only to return to this earth and dominate in an exponentially greater measure forevermore.

Do you have any thoughts on references in scripture that would give an expected timeline? Could be near? Must be near? Probably isn't for centuries?

Scripture deals far more with getting hold of dominion right now, and kinda leaves eternity future out of the discussion. So the bible does not say much, in my opinion, about the time of the immortal changeover.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Many respond to the question of why God created us by saying something like it being for His pleasure, and for Him to love us, etc. And when asked about our utmost goal of all goals, it is to die and go to Heaven. I DISAGREE! lol

The very first chapter of the Bible (significant) says God made man to have dominion on the earth and to subdue it. THAT IS IT!

To restore us to where we fell from, God would not have us die and go to Heaven. We fell from having dominion over the earth.

Yes, if we die we will go to Heaven. However, NOT FOREVER, though. Shocked? Think about it. THERE IS A RESURRECTION COMING in which we will once again abide in our EARTH SUITS called BODIES which are not made for Heaven or the unseen realm. Only, we will never die physically again.

God made us to have dominion on earth. Satan fell from heaven, not man. So dying and going to heaven is not our utmost goal.

Thoughts?

Exactly, Heaven isn't our home, just a temporary dwelling place, God made us to dwell on a New Earth! Christianity is the most material faith/religion.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Exactly, Heaven isn't our home, just a temporary dwelling place, God made us to dwell on a New Earth! Christianity is the most material faith/religion.

AMEN!

[Austin]

Originally Posted by mfblume

An immortal body that will never turn to dust.

And why are we dying to begin with when he Jesus removed the curse of the law and took out of the way the handwriting of ordinances that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross. Having spoiled principalities and powers he made a show of them openly triumphing over them in it. ( Heb. 2:14,15.
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself to twain one new man so making peace.(Eph. 2:15)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ.( Gal.3:13,14)
Read Romans Chapter 8 1-17. It's all there for the spirit minded person who can walk in the power of his spirit and in the principle of the faith of the Son of God.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

And why are we dying to begin with when he Jesus removed the curse of the law and took out of the way the handwriting of ordinances that was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross. Having spoiled principalities and powers he made a show of them openly triumphing over them in it. ( Heb. 2:14,15.
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity even the law of commandments contained in ordinances for to make in himself to twain one new man so making peace.(Eph. 2:15)
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree.
That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ.( Gal.3:13,14)
Read Romans Chapter 8 1-17. It's all there for the spirit minded person who can walk in the power of his spirit and in the principle of the faith of the Son of God.

The curse of the Law was not the curse from the Garden for man to return to dust. Thank God He is restoring us fully to pre-fall existence, part of which includes an immortal body as Adam originally had!

[Austin]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The curse of the Law was not the curse from the Garden for man to return to dust. Thank God He is restoring us fully to pre-fall existence, part of which includes an immortal body as Adam originally had!

So then, Jesus did not free us from the all curse of God upon all mankind. And did not all the commandments of God come with a penalty? So maybe your saying the believers are still under the curse of death. Not debating just finding out things.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Many respond to the question of why God created us by saying something like it being for His pleasure, and for Him to love us, etc. And when asked about our utmost goal of all goals, it is to die and go to Heaven. I DISAGREE! lol

The very first chapter of the Bible (significant) says God made man to have dominion on the earth and to subdue it. THAT IS IT!

To restore us to where we fell from, God would not have us die and go to Heaven. We fell from having dominion over the earth.

Yes, if we die we will go to Heaven. However, NOT FOREVER, though. Shocked? Think about it. THERE IS A RESURRECTION COMING in which we will once again abide in our EARTH SUITS called BODIES which are not made for Heaven or the unseen realm. Only, we will never die physically again.

God made us to have dominion on earth. Satan fell from heaven, not man. So dying and going to heaven is not our utmost goal.

Thoughts?

Agree!

I've thought this for many years now........

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Austin

So then, Jesus did not free us from the all curse of God upon all mankind. And did not all the commandments of God come with a penalty? So maybe your saying the believers are still under the curse of death. Not debating just finding out things.

I believe the work of the cross allowed for the immortalization of our bodies in the future, and that effecting it is not necessary for the time being. The cross paid for it, but it will kick into effect in our future. I think God makes use of our mortal bodies that still house sin for the purpose of maturing us,. etc. in spirit. It makes us battle and put down this flesh and deny it. So, in effect, the cross paid for it all, including the penalty of physical death, but the redemption of the body is not for this time yet due to His purposes in taking advantage of it for reasons beyond the scope of just dealing with death.


Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

FULL redemption includes even the body from death, but though it is not effected yet, it was still paid for by the cross.

So, yes, the curse of Adam was dealt with on the cross as well as the curse of the Law. So I should not have phrased it the way I did. I should have said the curse in the Garden was paid for by the cross, but the full experience of it is held back in time so far as our bodily redemption goes.

[rgcraig]

This freaks some people out.....