We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven

[Michael The Disciple]

One accord

Paul said he never quite got there, and neither will we, not until we leave this body and all of its flaws behind.

Rather he said:

Romans 12:1

12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Present our human BODIES holy to the Lord. Its the LEAST we can do! Our reasonable service. Thats how God sees it.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Rather he said:

Romans 12:1

12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Present our human BODIES holy to the Lord. Its the LEAST we can do! Our reasonable service. Thats how God sees it.

I respect your veiws, Bro. Michael, and would be happy to discuss them elsewhere, but, I think it would be best to direct our comments to the brother asking the question, rather than to one another.



But, since it might help Bro. Corvet, I was referring to what Paul wrote:

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

[OneAccord]

Bro. Corvett, read this:

Romans 3:11-15. The word "perfect" here is complete, mature.

[corvet786c]

Thank you for all the responses, it just seemed to me after reading rev chapt 2-3 that it struck me as wow this particular church had faith, charity and service and God was still not pleased. Granted he still gave them space to repent, but it just amazes me.

[Michael The Disciple]

Corvet,

It is amazing when our eyes are finally opened. The frail teachings of men for some time now have multiplied until believers no longer believe the words of Jesus. When you let his words speak and receive them you will be changed.

Many say perfect just means "mature". So that would have Jesus saying "Be ye therefore MATURE even as the Father in Heaven is MATURE. Matt. 5:48

Would that make his words more acceptable to them? If it REALLY only meant we are supposed to have the same MATURITY as the Father?

Be blessed that you have seen the truth. As you draw near to YHWH he will draw near to you. If you are Spirit filled you have the power to obey Jesus commands. The enemy does not want you to forsake all, die to self and follow Christ.

But Jesus does. He will keep you by his power to the day of salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Bro. Corvett, read this:

Romans 3:11-15. The word "perfect" here is complete, mature.

So we are to b complete in our actions as Christ was... John 15:4-15.

We are to obey the Father as Jesus did the Father's will and if we do so we are his friends. YEP that would fit in nicely with perfect or complete. IF you sin you have a advocate with the Father, Jesus christ the righteous.

Also yes God does take you out of the book of life.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

Thank you for all the responses, it just seemed to me after reading rev chapt 2-3 that it struck me as wow this particular church had faith, charity and service and God was still not pleased. Granted he still gave them space to repent, but it just amazes me.

Most people will simply after reading your concern about he churches of Ephesus shrug it off and say.... "you don't understand grace." In reality they don't understand grace. They makea view of grace that somehow changes God's reality of justice when we sin, thus they make it more mercy and tolrance of sin to say we still stand right before God and saved. Basically you have the many that are called and not hot and won't be chosen manipulating words and scripture to make themselves and all the other good people ok in each others sight. Then they will ask... "are you perfect." As if your failures as a whole means right standing right now. As if your lov for sin and failures change what God expects. Basically they want you to minimize God's justice through a paradigm that makes your goodness acceptable vs the excellence God desires. Many are called few are chosen.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corvet,

It is amazing when our eyes are finally opened. The frail teachings of men for some time now have multiplied until believers no longer believe the words of Jesus. When you let his words speak and receive them you will be changed.

Many say perfect just means "mature". So that would have Jesus saying "Be ye therefore MATURE even as the Father in Heaven is MATURE. Matt. 5:48

Would that make his words more acceptable to them? If it REALLY only meant we are supposed to have the same MATURITY as the Father?

Be blessed that you have seen the truth. As you draw near to YHWH he will draw near to you. If you are Spirit filled you have the power to obey Jesus commands. The enemy does not want you to forsake all, die to self and follow Christ.

But Jesus does. He will keep you by his power to the day of salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Michael... notice it is always about them lessening what is acceptable. Pefection is clearly viewed within he viewof Jesus Christ. What does Jesus say? We are to do as HE DID to abide as HE abode in the Father and do the Father's will as HE did. IF we do so we abide and are his friends. So the next time you have people that want lukewarm gospel of.... well you are not Jesus. The simple answer is. Yes I am like him if I am following as he did the Father's will which I am told I can do and to do such is to be as Christ and called his friend.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

Someone correct me if I am wrong. I just got done reading Revelation chap 2-3 where Jesus is talking to the churches. Some of these churches had charity, faith and service, seem to be doin all the good things yet Jesus had something against them. I am like what does God expect from us. I understand he died and paid for our sins, but we live in a very tempting world today. He told them except they repent, but still how many times do they have to repent.

I heard some preachers preach that we us today will never be perfect until we get to heaven as long as we are in the flesh.This is not the case the bible clearly says to be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect. So could someone shed some light on this for me before I have a panic attack?

We do have to live a sinless life on this earth correct???

Yes, one has to be absolutely perfect to go to Heaven. One must be absolutely sinless.

That's the bad news.

The good news is... Jesus.

Romans 4:24-25
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jesus is our justification.
Jesus is our righteousness.
Jesus is our propitiation.
Jesus is our completion.
Jesus is our holiness.
Jesus is our rest.
Jesus made us sons of God.
Jesus is our sanctification.

Jesus is our... everything.

If HE dwells in us and we are one with Him... all that He is by nature is transfered to us by virtue of the cross... though we be absolutely undeserving.

Every false religion on earth has a list of things one must DO to be perfect and experience the ultimate state of existence (salvation). Biblical Christianity is the ONLY religion that teaches... you can't. Give it up. You can't make it to Heaven. You can't act right enough, dress right enough, know enough, believe right enough, or build enough to get to Heaven. NOTHING you do can get you to Heaven. In fact, you at your BEST will not please God. Why? Because it's still YOU. You have to DIE. You have to be crucified with Christ, living only because He now lives in you. Living your life in this physical world through the power of the indwelling Jesus Christ. Now... He imparts all that He is freely to you... that you might be justified before a Holy God and enter Heaven. In Christianity it's not about what you do for God. It's about what God has done for you.

Those who are "hidden in Christ" are therefore perfect, because He is perfect. Oh, I know they don't always "act perfect". But they are perfect by virtue of the new nature of Jesus Himself (the Holy Spirit), who is dwelling within them.

Man is a three part being:

Body - Physical self.
Soul - Psyche or mental self.
Spirit - Spiritual self.

Being born again regenerates the spirit of man by virtue of an imparted new nature. The Spirit of Christ within a man makes a man's spirit perfect. It's the mind and habits of the flesh that simply have to be brought into alignment with the new nature.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Yes, one has to be absolutely perfect to go to Heaven. One must be absolutely sinless.

That's the bad news.

The good news is... Jesus.

Romans 4:24-25
24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Jesus is our justification.
Jesus is our righteousness.
Jesus is our propitiation.
Jesus is our completion.
Jesus is our holiness.
Jesus is our rest.
Jesus made us sons of God.
Jesus is our sanctification.

Jesus is our... everything.

If HE dwells in us and we are one with Him... all that He is by nature is transfered to us by virtue of the cross... though we be absolutely undeserving.

Every false religion on earth has a list of things one must DO to be perfect and experience the ultimate state of existence (salvation). Biblical Christianity is the ONLY religion that teaches... you can't. Give it up. You can't make it to Heaven. You can't act right enough, dress right enough, know enough, believe right enough, or build enough to get to Heaven. NOTHING you do can get you to Heaven. In fact, you at your BEST will not please God. Why? Because it's still YOU. You have to DIE. You have to be crucified with Christ, living only because He now lives in you. Living your life in this physical world through the power of the indwelling Jesus Christ. Now... He imparts all that He is freely to you... that you might be justified before a Holy God and enter Heaven. In Christianity it's not about what you do for God. It's about what God has done for you.

Those who are "hidden in Christ" are therefore perfect, because He is perfect. Oh, I know they don't always "act perfect". But they are perfect by virtue of the new nature of Jesus Himself (the Holy Spirit), who is dwelling within them.

Aquila you teach false doctrine. ABIDING is by DOING! JEsus said so! You are not righteous while still being unrighteous. You are not his friend while in sin. HE will compel you to turn away but you are at enmity. We are righteous because he leads us TO DO righteousness and we follow by faith and he judges us right before him. In doing so he cleanses us from sin. As he walked we are to walk.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you: The one who practices righteousness25 is righteous, just as Jesus26 is righteous. cf John 15:4-15

The underlined I agree with but you view of imparting of justification is OSASish.