Lol. How could the day of the rich man's death be better than the day of his birth, if we see that he is thirsty and "in hell" in even the...lamer translations? How can both be true?
Lol. How could the day of the rich man's death be better than the day of his birth, if we see that he is thirsty and "in hell" in even the...lamer translations? How can both be true?
I'd say they can't.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Ha, and yet they are. It was extremely clear last night, and now it has faded into near obscurity, but something about our perception of the rich man's state is obviously wrong here--one or the other can only seem to be true. The translation here is generally horrible, imo, first off, please see here http://bible.cc/luke/16-23.htm for multiple translations to get a better sense. And then see that God's idea of torment is not that image in your mind. It is presented that way to provoke the idea of torture, but see how your 16 year old daughter can torture you (is the first thing that pops to mind). And also, this verse has the rich man in a "final state," imo, jumping him right to damnation for purposes of making the main point.
The rich man thirsted for knowledge, just like before he died; there is a sense in which his state did not change, spiritually, and this passage seems to take liberties in sending him to hell both for the reason that hell would not seem to exist yet, according to Revelation, and "no one knows where we go when we die," so some latitude should, I think, be allowed due to the fact that this passage is actually presenting a different lesson, trying to make a different point. However, this does not mean that we cannot connect the three verses, but that some change in premise must occur. I believe the "torture" the rich man suffered was lack of knowledge, the torture a kid might endure having to watch all the rides he can't go on, if you will, because of lack of knowledge. Pardon the redundancy.
Ha, and yet they are. It was extremely clear last night, and now it has faded into near obscurity, but something about our perception of the rich man's state is obviously wrong here--one or the other can only seem to be true. The translation here is generally horrible, imo, first off, please see here http://bible.cc/luke/16-23.htm for multiple translations to get a better sense. And then see that God's idea of torment is not that image in your mind. It is presented that way to provoke the idea of torture, but see how your 16 year old daughter can torture you (is the first thing that pops to mind). And also, this verse has the rich man in a "final state," imo, jumping him right to damnation for purposes of making the main point.
The rich man thirsted for knowledge, just like before he died; there is a sense in which his state did not change, spiritually, and this passage seems to take liberties in sending him to hell both for the reason that hell would not seem to exist yet, according to Revelation, and "no one knows where we go when we die," so some latitude should, I think, be allowed due to the fact that this passage is actually presenting a different lesson, trying to make a different point. However, this does not mean that we cannot connect the three verses, but that some change in premise must occur. I believe the "torture" the rich man suffered was lack of knowledge, the torture a kid might endure having to watch all the rides he can't go on, if you will, because of lack of knowledge. Pardon the redundancy.
Every translation of v 25 mentions begging for a tiny bit of water, torment or agony or anguish or suffering, in fire or flame. But fine. The day he entered this situation was greater than the day of his birth, I'm sure he would agree.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Every translation of v 25 mentions begging for a tiny bit of water, torment or agony or anguish or suffering, in fire or flame. But fine. The day he entered this situation was greater than the day of his birth, I'm sure he would agree.
Um, yes, he would not return to his old life if he could, is my pretty firm belief. "The day of my death was better than the day of my birth" would issue from his mouth, verifying Scripture. But the reason becomes vastly obscured in this example, I'm afraid, due to the assumed finality of his position here, which I have a weird feeling isn't true, although this would seem to have to make general reincarnation true? Don't know if I could go there, although we have refs for it...
Ah, well understand I didn't mean to present this as gospel. i still felt it was worth the risk for purposes of edification, and I don't doubt some reflection of truth in this; I've even read, in my ref above, some translations that lend themselves much better to this, but I've given you the gist. My story has a spirit that can be interrogated : )
Ah, well understand I didn't mean to present this as gospel. i still felt it was worth the risk for purposes of edification, and I don't doubt some reflection of truth in this; I've even read, in my ref above, some translations that lend themselves much better to this, but I've given you the gist. My story has a spirit that can be interrogated : )
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