Guns: An Important Discussion

[RandyWayne]

Pliny, good post. You posted my thoughts exactly (only much better). Church and family are two very different things.

We are NOT to say "Repent or die!" but we ARE allowed to say "Touch my wife, harm my children, or steal my things and feel the cold kiss of my Ruger 9mm!".

[HRea]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Pliny, good post. You posted my thoughts exactly (only much better). Church and family are two very different things.

We are NOT to say "Repent or die!" but we ARE allowed to say "Touch my wife, harm my children, or steal my things and feel the cold kiss of my Ruger 9mm!".

I agree, good post.

I know there are other threads about the end times, but here is very interesting passage concerning God's witnesses during the time of the end:

Revelation 11:3-6
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Although they are not evangelizing with the end of a sword, they don't appear to be helpless in the face of adversity. They are more like Stand Your Ground Witnesses.

[kclee4jc]

As a Christian I have no right to take another human life under any circumstances whatsoever. I feel very very strongly about this.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

As a Christian I have no right to take another human life under any circumstances whatsoever. I feel very very strongly about this.

So you would allow your wife/girlfriend to be molested by another without taking whatever step was necessary? Just askin.

[HRea]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

So you would allow your wife/girlfriend to be molested by another without taking whatever step was necessary? Just askin.

I think of all of the issues surrounding guns, open carry, concealed carry, self-defense, home security, 2nd Amendment rights, hunting, etc., your question strikes at the heart of the reason why the majority of gun supporters (me included) have made a decision to bear arms.

Consider this very similar Biblical example and God's response to it:

If the words of Malachi are true:

Malachi 3:6a For I am the LORD, I change not;

And the book of Hebrews is God Breathed:

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Then consider how God delivered the Jews when this decree was enacted against them"

Esther 3:13 And the letters were sent by posts into all the king's provinces, to destroy, to kill, and to cause to perish, all Jews, both young and old, little children and women, in one day, even upon the thirteenth day of the twelfth month, which is the month Adar, and to take the spoil of them for a prey.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by kclee4jc

As a Christian I have no right to take another human life under any circumstances whatsoever. I feel very very strongly about this.

Wow - this post really shocks me. If someone threatens my life or my families life, I have ever right to protect myself and them. We have lots of guns in our home and we all know how to use them. I feel very strongly about this.

[Michael The Disciple]

What say you all about this scripture?

Hebrews 10:32-37

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated , ye endured a great fight of afflictions;33Partly , whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used . 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods , knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.37For yet a little while , and he that shall come will come , and will not tarry .

Please stay with this scripture. We will examine others sure but comment on these words.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

What say you all about this scripture?

Hebrews 10:32-37

32But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated , ye endured a great fight of afflictions;33Partly , whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used . 34For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods , knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.35Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.36For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.37For yet a little while , and he that shall come will come , and will not tarry .

Please stay with this scripture. We will examine others sure but comment on these words.

took joyfully the spoiling of your goods

They believed, correctly I guess, that they were supposed to give up their 'goods'....that it was the will of God for them to do this.

[Michael The Disciple]

Interesting teaching James gave us:

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton ; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold , the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.8Be ye also patient ; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh . James 5:5-8

He says the wicked kill the just and they do not fight back. He admonishes the just to be patient until the coming of the Lord. The common Christian wisdom would have said buy yourselves AK'S or AR'S. Dont you know Jesus expects you to defend yourselves? Why did James say what he said?

Are we in a different class of Christian than they were? Or were they real Apostolic disciples of Yeshua?

Who are we?

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Interesting teaching James gave us:

5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton ; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold , the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.8Be ye also patient ; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh . James 5:5-8

He says the wicked kill the just and they do not fight back. He admonishes the just to be patient until the coming of the Lord. The common Christian wisdom would have said buy yourselves AK'S or AR'S. Dont you know Jesus expects you to defend yourselves? Why did James say what he said?

Are we in a different class of Christian than they were? Or were they real Apostolic disciples of Yeshua?

Who are we?

Is James speaking of religious persecution or someone breaking and entering?

It sounds to me like religious persecution from the likes of Saul before he was Paul. Jesus told his disciples to go and buy a sword. Peter carried one to Gethsemane and apparently Jesus did not tell him "no". Peter had it and even felt he could justifiably use it - this after listening to the Beattitudes and the many things Jesus taught for three and a half years.

Jesus healed the ear of Malchus and told Peter to put up his sword. This religious persecution was the will of God at that moment - Jesus had to go to Calvary.

There is a difference between living by the sword and having one to protect your family etc. James called for patience in the face of religious persecution. Self defense is a right codified even in the Mosaic Law - it is one of the most fundamental and basic human rights humanity has. Should a person defend themselves against a wild animal? I say absolutely and even when men act like animals I will defend my loved one's. If this offends someone's "Christian sensibilities" I say get away from the sloppy agape koolaid. I believe Nehemiah had the right idea. Build the wall but be ready to defend yourself against the animalistic tendencies of fallen man.