Do unbelievers belong in the assembly?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Anyway, if the bible indicates the lost are 'saved' by Christians 'going forth' with the gospel, then why do we reverse that and establish a pattern where the lost 'come to church to hopefully get 'em saved'?

As far as the pattern of "bringing the lost to church to get them saved", yeah, I agree the emphasis should be mainly going out to reach the lost. However, a lot of churches ("pastors"..cough cough) do not equip their saints to evangelize. It's mostly invite the lost to church. So I see what you're saying.

But the article you referenced is saying:

"Until the lost are saved, they don't belong in the assembly! In the O.T. God's direction was absolutely dclear about keeping the profane out of God's presence. And they had the gatekeepers so that the unclean could not go in."

That's the part that I think is wrong. That declaration does not allow for an unbeliever to enter the assembly (*if* or *when*) as noted by Paul in 1 Cor 14.

The article is saying unbelievers are unclean, so they should not be in the house of the Lord. Ofcourse, considering the house of the Lord are human beings, the logical conclusion of the author's argument is that believers hould not associate with unbelievers. However, the author refrains from making that statement, even though that's the logical conclusion of their argument.

[Esaias]

In a house church setting, should unbelievers be admitted only to specific meetings designed for such purposes? Or should they be admitted to any and every meeting of the church?

I read a blog today where this very question was being discussed. One person made the comment: "I work with sinners, shop with sinners, go to baseball games with sinners, drive the streets with sinners, etc. I want to worship Christ with those sanctified by Him."

I mean, what is the purpose of assembling together? Is it to 'win the lost'? Or is it to strengthen and edify the believers, so they may go out and 'win the lost'?

If the latter, then it seems that 'church is for the believer and the lost need evangelism, not church meetings'.

???

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

First off, the problem Paul was addressing in 1 Cor 5 was believers commiting fornication.
And, he ended by admonishing them to:

1 Cor 5
9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people;
10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.
11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

The "wicked" man that was to be removed from the assembly was a believer (at least a professed believer)


Secondly,

1 Cor 14
23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;
25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.

Pretty clear!

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

In a house church setting, should unbelievers be admitted only to specific meetings designed for such purposes? Or should they be admitted to any and every meeting of the church?

I read a blog today where this very question was being discussed. One person made the comment: "I work with sinners, shop with sinners, go to baseball games with sinners, drive the streets with sinners, etc. I want to worship Christ with those sanctified by Him."

I mean, what is the purpose of assembling together? Is it to 'win the lost'? Or is it to strengthen and edify the believers, so they may go out and 'win the lost'?

If the latter, then it seems that 'church is for the believer and the lost need evangelism, not church meetings'.
???

The church is for the believer, but the article you referenced is implying that unbelievers should not be allowed at all in the congregation (referencing the old testament).

The lost need evangelism does not preclude such a lost person from getting saved while attending a meeting of believers

Let's get practical: An unbeliever sees you and for whatever reason says, "hey, I want to go to church with you..." Are we then to say, no don't come to church until you have been saved?

I agree the meeting of believers is primarily for believers to edify one another, but to ban unbelievers from attending is stretching it. (ref: 1 Cor 14 "if an unbeliever comes into your midst...")

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Let's get practical: An unbeliever sees you and for whatever reason says, "hey, I want to go to church with you..." Are we then to say, no don't come to church until you have been saved?

I agree the meeting of believers is primarily for believers to edify one another, but to ban unbelievers from attending is stretching it. (ref: 1 Cor 14 "if an unbeliever comes into your midst...")

What if you were going to have the Lord's Supper tonight, and an unbeliever friend says 'Hey, I wanna come too'...

???? what do you say? 'Uh, well, the Lord's Supper is only for believers...'????

Or do you believe in totally open communion?

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What if you were going to have the Lord's Supper tonight, and an unbeliever friend says 'Hey, I wanna come too'...

???? what do you say? 'Uh, well, the Lord's Supper is only for believers...'????

Or do you believe in totally open communion?

Will you be having a glass of wine with your Lord's Supper???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Will you be having a glass of wine with your Lord's Supper???

WOW! Talk about a Cup of Blessing! It's so big it MUST be holy!

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What if you were going to have the Lord's Supper tonight, and an unbeliever friend says 'Hey, I wanna come too'...

???? what do you say? 'Uh, well, the Lord's Supper is only for believers...'????

Or do you believe in totally open communion?

Them coming does not mean they partake in communion.

An unbeliever attending the meeting does not mean he/she gets to teach doctrine. Since, they are not saved yet, they get to be "spectators" in the church, but not banned from the church.

Communion is for believers, but the unbeliever can be in the gathering. Again, I believe the gathering of saints is primarily for believers to edify each other.

However, given the scripture of 1 Cor 14 about the possibility of an unbeliever attending a church meeting and getting ministered to, it would seem to me that unbelivers should not be banned from attending church meetings. It is just another avenue for them to be exposed to the Word.

[Praxeas]

1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV

Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

1 Corinthians 14:23 ESV

If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

1 Corinthians 14:24 ESV

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1 Corinthians 14:22 ESV

Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.

1 Corinthians 14:23 ESV

If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

1 Corinthians 14:24 ESV

But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all

A little bit off topic here. How are tongues a sign for unbelievers?