When is prayer effective?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Timmy,
This is not true.

[shazeep]

i have to agree; but it is why i started this thread. But what is 'believe' here? Interestingly, to me, one of the few of Christ's prayers that we are privy to might be considered a 'failed' prayer. So, what are you asking for?

i am only just grasping this better after a couple of years of study; i liked how the 'problem solving devices' are all related to the temple.

i am noting that physics has recently removed the bounds we previously put on it in this area, also; and, this type of 'prayer' (of belief) strangely seems to work for anyone, whether we might judge them 'saved' or 'lost.'

Very nice, VotiveSoul

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Timmy,
This is not true.

I would have worded things differently than whoever made it did. But it seems that there are a lot of conditions, beyond just believing and asking. This has proven true many, many times, has it not? Just about everyone here would admit that they have often asked for something and believed it would happen, but it didn't.

Some other conditions are named elsewhere in the Bible. 1 John 5:14-15 says God will do anything you ask, if it is "according to his will". I.e., if it is something he wants to do. James says the effectual fervent prayer availeth much. In other words, an effective prayer is effective. Prayer didn't work? Then it wasn't effective. Booyah!

[shazeep]

yes, we all experience this. there is a solid reason, that may be discovered. many 'successful,' 'lost' people use this principle every day in their lives.

[Timmy]

I suspect that main thing you object to is that part about it being physically possible, and it could happen anyway. The point the meme-maker was making, of course, is that in his observation, things people pray for that actually do happen would have (or at least could have) happened anyway. In his observation. And that has been my observation, too.

[shazeep]

mine, too, which is why i set out on this path. as strange as this advice might sound, i recommend learning the 'prayer of faith' like a secular, 'successful' type. i don't mean the things prayed for, but the method. what is their secret, that most--i'll say--Christians fail to grasp?

[shazeep]

"The furniture of the Holy Place illustrated God's grace provision for executing the spiritual life after salvation. The second entrance of the Tabernacle was another unique entrance, the only one into the Holy Place. Clearly marked with the Blue, Purple, Scarlet, and Fine Linen, it revealed the second most important decision in life. First was Salvation by Grace and second was Grace Orientation for the spiritual life. The illustration was a believer feasting on the Word, walking in the Light, and praying to his Heavenly Father."


from the link, might be considered a hopeful culmination of this thread.

[Timmy]

Still have shazeep on my ignore list, but let me guess: he says it's "yack" to expect God to do whatever you ask him to. Close?

[shazeep]

if we ask like a (relative) 3 year old, as we are taught--or absorb--in most churches (imo), yes.
But strangely, not as if we ask like a secular, 'successful' person. hmm.
i think this speaks to one's understanding of 'believe.'

[John1:12-14]

James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up. And if he has committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16..Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
17..Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are. And he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and it rained not on the earth for the space of three years and six months.
18..And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain and the earth brought forth her fruit.

2 Peter 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time,
7..casting all your cares upon Him, for He careth for you.
8..Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9..Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren who are in the world.

Philippians 4:6 Fret not about anything, but in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known unto God.
7..And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Romans 12:10..Have kindly affection one for another with brotherly love, in honor preferring one another;
11..not slothful in business; fervent in spirit, serving the Lord;
12..rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing instant in prayer;
13..distributing to the necessity of saints, given to hospitality.

Ephesians 6:8..praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints.
19..And pray for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly to make known the mystery of the Gospel,
20..for which I am an ambassador in bonds, that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

1 Thessalonians 5:15..See that none render evil for evil unto any man, but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves and with all men.
16..Rejoice evermore.
17..Pray without ceasing.
18..In every thing give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
19..Quench not the Spirit.
20..Despise not prophesyings.
21..Test all things; hold fast to that which is good.
22..Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23..And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24..Faithful is He that calleth you; He also will do it.
25..Brethren, pray for us.

Matthew 26:41..Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

Luke 21:34..“And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness and cares of this life, and so that Day come upon you unawares.
35..For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36..Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

Colossians 4:2 Continue in prayer and watch therein with thanksgiving,
3..besides praying also for us that God would open unto us a door of utterance to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds,
4..that I may make it manifest, as I ought to speak.

Prayer is communication with God, we need the council from the Creator, we need guidance, we need grace, we need mercy, we need protection, we need life, we need conviction, we need compassion, we need wisdom, understanding, knowledge, we need the fear of the LORD. Prayer is vital, in prayer we express our need for a Saviour we express the need for change, deliverance and salvation. Let us also be aware of self righteous prayers, Jesus warned his disciples not to do as the Pharisees one deed they did that Jesus warns us is making long prayers for a pretense, outwardly they appeared righteous but their motives, and intentions were to receive the praise of men.