As crazy as this may sound, a friend of mine jumped from a tree and accidentally landed on my dogs tail. (My friend WAS Methodist, and little bit on the heavy side.) I said, "dude, you just crushed my dogs tail!" And I ran over to my dog as she was whimpering. I held her tail in my hand, and I could feel where it was broken. I told him, "we are about to pray for my dog. He said, "what? Why are we gonna pray for a dog? That's stupid." I said, "bro, you just broke my dogs tail, and your gonna help me pray for it. Now grab her tail right here and start prayin' that God will heal her" we started praying and he looks up at me and says, "holy sshhh..........! Dude! I felt the bones come back together! O my god! O my god! O my god! That was hecka crazy!" I said, " wanna go to church with me Sunday? He said yes but it was a month or two before he actually came lol
ok, now just imagine his reaction if you had told him, "ya, i picked that up at my church--sorry, but you prolly wouldn't be interested in paying the price" or some similar--like Christ did, you know; "Count the cost"--instead of that proselytizing stuff the pastor showed you...
Prayer isn't effective when the prayer conflicts with the will of God, IMO. The issue then becomes one of how does one know the will of God?
I guess just scatter prayer out there and hope some takes root and produces.
well, produces what? what are you expecting from your prayers; or what have you been taught to expect prayer to be efficacious for? Also your 'hope' there does not sound like 'confident expectation' to me--which believe me, i'm familiar with, that rather hopeless version of hope.
that is why i've been on about 'prayer' for the last week or so; having seen the (death-centered) Christianity we are provided in the West, initially a couple of years ago, i am just now seeing how the ptb in that area naturally would not want 'dead' Christians to have access to the still functional, and very powerful, problem solving devices that God has provided.
we largely pray to God as santa claus now, imo, and then either get discouraged, or invent some reason (wasn't in God's will) why the prayer was ineffective. please don't feel isolated here, as i'm doing the same thing! But really, the verse does not say "Whoever says to this mountain, after first verifying that it is in God's will..."
i'm telling you--stone cold atheists' that we might call 'successful' in worldly terms may possibly be having their 'prayers' answered more effectively than believers'! Tho that might be pushing it a bit, it also might not be. I'm looking for a Scriptural argument against that now, but strangely finding the promises in Scripture seem to apply to all or any...hmm.
Sounds like Matthew 5:45. "That ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven: For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Seems like we all are allowed some blessing and benefit just from being alive on this earth.
Sounds like Matthew 5:45. "That ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven: For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Seems like we all are allowed some blessing and benefit just from being alive on this earth.
amen. and i'm getting the distinct impression from Scripture, there, and in many other places--the parable of the separation of sheep and goats, the declaration of he who holds fast until the end, etc., the someone we may have labeled believer prolly has no more truck with God than a Rothschild
Praying just for the sake of doesn't accomplish anything.
Faith is key. The object of faith is key. Not working yourself into a wishful thinking deception, mind you. But true faith. Not faith in the prayer being answered, but faith in the One answering the prayer (a key difference).
Heathens think that they shall be heard because of their "much speaking".
People who regard iniquity in their hearts should not expect God to hear them.
The Baal worshipers at Mt. Carmel offered a massively INEFFECTIVE prayer.
Elijah asked God to take away his life, but nope.
Paul sought the Lord three times for the thorn in the flesh to go away, but was told no.
Paul also trusted that through Philemon's prayers, he would be delivered from prison. Didn't happen.
Esau sought repentance carefully with tears but didn't have it given to him.
Joshua wanted to weep before the Lord in repentance and the LORD told him to get up and stop it.
Samuel cried before the LORD for Saul, and God said "Too bad".
God told Jeremiah to stop praying for Judah.
These are all examples of "ineffective" prayer. Maybe a dissection of these different examples will bring out a better understanding of the elements of useless prayers (useless in the sense that they will not be answered by God in any affirmative, expected way).
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For anyone devoted to His fear:
Praying just for the sake of doesn't accomplish anything.
Faith is key. The object of faith is key. Not working yourself into a wishful thinking deception, mind you. But true faith. Not faith in the prayer being answered, but faith in the One answering the prayer (a key difference).
Heathens think that they shall be heard because of their "much speaking".
People who regard iniquity in their hearts should not expect God to hear them.
The Baal worshipers at Mt. Carmel offered a massively INEFFECTIVE prayer.
Elijah asked God to take away his life, but nope.
Paul sought the Lord three times for the thorn in the flesh to go away, but was told no.
Paul also trusted that through Philemon's prayers, he would be delivered from prison. Didn't happen.
Esau sought repentance carefully with tears but didn't have it given to him.
Joshua wanted to weep before the Lord in repentance and the LORD told him to get up and stop it.
Samuel cried before the LORD for Saul, and God said "Too bad".
God told Jeremiah to stop praying for Judah.
These are all examples of "ineffective" prayer. Maybe a dissection of these different examples will bring out a better understanding of the elements of useless prayers (useless in the sense that they will not be answered by God in any affirmative, expected way).
Jesus prayed that his followers would be one, but....
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Jesus prayed that his followers would be one, but....
A reflection of His desire in the face of human stubborn willfulness. Just goes to show how free and independent we all are and can be that not even the Lord can have His own prayer for us answered.
And yet, there will come a day, when He comes through those clouds that echad will be achieved by those faithful few who submitted to His will and not their own, in this area (and all others).
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For anyone devoted to His fear:
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